Coppercoat boat left in mud

[Russ the Diver]

If I was to have my catamaran coppercoated would it be affected if the boat was left on the mud. The boat floats for around 1.5 hours either side of high tide, depending on whether a neap or spring, the rest of the time it sits in the mud.
Thanks
Russ

 

[Kwik Decision]

We had our boat copper coated in 2011, and for a couple of years, on a deep water mooring in Portsmouth Harbour, it worked well.

We then moved to a semi tidal mooring on the River Hamble, and it has not been effective here, with lots of growth, both barnacles and weed, particularly on and between the keels - the bits which are regularly covered in mud.

We are in the process of buying a new boat, which will live on the same semi tidal mooring - I have no plans to have the new boat copper coated......

 

[Russ the Diver]

We had our boat copper coated in 2011, and for a couple of years, on a deep water mooring in Portsmouth Harbour, it worked well.

We then moved to a semi tidal mooring on the River Hamble, and it has not been effective here, with lots of growth, both barnacles and weed, particularly on and between the keels - the bits which are regularly covered in mud.

We are in the process of buying a new boat, which will live on the same semi tidal mooring - I have no plans to have the new boat copper coated......

Thanks, perhaps an additional question, if you have the growth as you say does that affect the coppercoat? I'm happy to dry out and rub hulls down just don't want to go through all the process of rubbing down and repainting etc

 

[Daydream believer]

Being berthed in Bradwell marina I found that the base of the keel & rudder tip catch in the mud. the resulting silt gives marine growth a surface to grip to, so the Coppercoat does not work at all . --- Not that it is much good anyway but does save the annual scrape & paint I only have to do a mid season jetwash as well as the annual lift
My solution has been to paint the bottom part of the keel in an erodable antifoul so the mud does fall away a bit easier once the boat starts moving.
I tend to believe that this has been a bit more effective. Furthermore, I often ground going in and out of Bradwell & the Coppercoat gets chipped. This way is easier than repairing the chips & only takes an hour to sort each season.

 

[Kwik Decision]

Thanks, perhaps an additional question, if you have the growth as you say does that affect the coppercoat? I'm happy to dry out and rub hulls down just don't want to go through all the process of rubbing down and repainting etc

The coppercoat hasn't been damaged by the drying out or the fouling, except where I've been rather too vigorous with a metal scrapper removing barnacles; we also dry out for a scrub a couple of times a yr. I still wouldn't recommend it for a boat on a mud berth though.

 

[Daydream believer]

The coppercoat hasn't been damaged by the drying out or the fouling, except where I've been rather too vigorous with a metal scrapper removing barnacles;

So your copper coat does not work either !!

 

[seumask]

I thinks its fair to say that most hard antifouls don't work effectively in mud berths. We successfully used copper coat on a drying berth lift keeler as it was sandy rather than muddy and that seemed to abrade the copper coat well.

 

[Kwik Decision]

So your copper coat does not work either !!

Not on a semi tidal berth, no, but as I said in my first post, it was effective on a deep water mooring.

 

[oldharry]

Mine lives in soft mud at LW too in Chichester harbour, and I find that soft AFs just get sucked off within about three weeks. There is simply nothing left of that expensive AF within a few weeks. I found hard AFs at least stay put, and reduce, but do not eliminate fouling. The coating of slime left by the mud seems to neutralise any AF effect, but at least it stay put. The only answer is frequent use of the boat - such a hardship! But not so easy when the weather stays bad for weeks on end...

 

[Lucky Duck]

An option would be to use hard antifoul for the keels and an eroding type where it doesn't sit in the mud?

 

[Birdseye]

The coppercoat wouldnt be affected unless it came into contact with stones etc, but just like with antifoul, the coating of mud left on the surface would encourage fouling. Gives it something to cling to and protects the fouling from the antifoul.

 

[PCUK]

15 years in Gillingham marina on the mud and no problems with DIY applied Copperbot.

 

[Russ the Diver]

15 years in Gillingham marina on the mud and no problems with DIY applied Copperbot.

Excuse my ignorance, is Copperbot the same as Coppercoat???
Anymore comments on whether its ok to leave in the mud for long periods between tides?

 

[Daydream believer]

Excuse my ignorance, is Copperbot the same as Coppercoat???

No

 

[oldharry]

An option would be to use hard antifoul for the keels and an eroding type where it doesn't sit in the mud?

Yes, but its such soft mud that she effectively floats in it rather than on it, so quite a bit of the hull gets immersed too!

 

[Hydrozoan]

I cannot comment specifically on any particular product but a few remarks on copper chemistry may be useful, as they may be relevant to any antifouling agent exploiting copper – additional to any purely physical effects there may be from the presence of mud on the surface.

Copper binds strongly to sulphide ion – both to form insoluble cuprous sulphide and to form copper-sulphide complexes in solution. So in anoxic muds, a cuprous sulphide rich surface layer might form, with relatively high concentrations of dissolved copper-sulphide complexes in local solution - but relatively low concentrations of free cuprous/cupric ions. The speciation of copper in the solid phase and in adjacent solution may affect the antifouling properties.

Effects of sulphide on the chemical forms of copper may be reversible, but some of the factors that make copper binding strong will also tend to make changes slow. So effects of the water/sediment environment when the metal is exposed could persist after conditions change. In short, the chemistry and biological effects of copper in anoxic conditions (and, most likely, in oscillating anoxic/oxic conditions too) will be different from those in oxygenated seawater.

 

[Daydream believer]

I cannot comment specifically on any particular product but a few remarks on copper chemistry may be useful, as they may be relevant to any antifouling agent exploiting copper – additional to any purely physical effects there may be from the presence of mud on the surface.

Copper binds strongly to sulphide ion – both to form insoluble cuprous sulphide and to form copper-sulphide complexes in solution. So in anoxic muds, a cuprous sulphide rich surface layer might form, with relatively high concentrations of dissolved copper-sulphide complexes in local solution - but relatively low concentrations of free cuprous/cupric ions. The speciation of copper in the solid phase and in adjacent solution may affect the antifouling properties.

Effects of sulphide on the chemical forms of copper may be reversible, but some of the factors that make copper binding strong will also tend to make changes slow. So effects of the water/sediment environment when the metal is exposed could persist after conditions change. In short, the chemistry and biological effects of copper in anoxic conditions (and, most likely, in oscillating anoxic/oxic conditions too) will be different from those in oxygenated seawater.

So it don't work in mud !!

 

[vyv_cox]

So it don't work in mud !!

That was my understanding from several past posts. I thought I remembered that the Coppercoat website said the same but I see that now it doesn't.

 

[Hydrozoan]

So it don't work in mud !!

I don't know if copper-based antifouling works in mud or not - all I'm saying is that if it's maintained in, or frequently exposed to, anoxic conditions, the chemistry of copper may be very different from that in oxygenated seawater.

 

[Greenheart]

I wonder if just a brief slathering of sticky mud is sufficient to depower Coppercoat's ability to deter growth?

I mean, if one has an all-tide mooring which just occasionally goes low enough to put the boat slightly on her side for an hour, will that contact with the mud, which won't be removed by the tide rippling past in the weeks that follow, necessarily spell growth?

Sorry for my blank slate of ignorance about antifouling, but I had thought Coppercoat was a costly-but-worth-it panacea for any boat's undersides, until reading here today.

I can see that any A/F will be reduced in its effect if it isn't surrounded by water as it was designed to be.

But I'm wondering how the critters which use the mud as a launching spot, are suddenly not bothered by the copper which they formerly detested. Does the mud let them settle on the hull long enough to bore through the Coppercoat, whereas without the mud, their only way to cling on to a hull was by taking a big bite of the stuff, which immediately sent them swimming for another home?

It's largely academic - except I'm thinking again about small cruisers, and tidal moorings are - or were - my supposed solution to high mooring fees...but not if the mud invalidates the antifouling. Glad I looked in, here. :encouragement: