Doug_Stormforce
New member
Im looking to copper coat a competitive racer cruiser instead of anti foul. I am told copper coat is fast but don't see other race boats with it. Anyone with first hand experience?
Copper Coat- Performance
- Thread starter Doug_Stormforce
- Start date
srm
Well-known member
If applied correctly to a smooth hull it will have a smooth finish as it is applied in very thin coats wet on wet. It could be burnish once cured. Have seen a very smooth finish on one boat I was thinking of buying.
My self-applied finish is not so smooth, but that's due to the "orange peel" finish of the underlying high build epoxy, not the Copper Coat.
Have been told that coating older boats can be a problem, all depends on the hull moisture content.
My self-applied finish is not so smooth, but that's due to the "orange peel" finish of the underlying high build epoxy, not the Copper Coat.
Have been told that coating older boats can be a problem, all depends on the hull moisture content.
oldsaltoz
New member
Used to race a cat with coppercoat, the owner was a fanatic and had us rubbing down before each race, it lasted 2 years and he went back to antifoul paint applied with an airless gun for a smoother finish.
It does seem to work better in colder water though.
It does seem to work better in colder water though.
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
Just a small matter - the "orange peel" effect may be actually more hydrodynamically efficient than a smooth surface. However, I am not an expert on hydrodynamics! But I do know that smooth is not necessarily the best; look at sharks' skin, for example, where the decidedly rough denticles give the shark a hydrodynamic advantage; to do with vortex shedding, I think.
rivonia
Active member
The same can be said for GOLF BALLS, the dimples make them go straighter faster longer!
Peter
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Many years ago I had the opportunity to ask a professor who really knew about the subject exactly the same question. He agreed that certain textured surfaces were more efficient than perfectly smooth ones. Water tends to remain attached to the textured surface so that flow induces friction between water and water, whereas with a smooth hull it is between hull and water, a higher figure.
Bosun Higgs
N/A
Ours is copper coated and we do race the boat. The finish on ours is not smooth but I have no doubt that it can be made so, particularly if sprayed on. As epoxy it will take more effort to sand smooth. It seems acceptably effective at being an anti foul but we moor in fresh and sail in salt so we arent a good guide.
I dont see any reason why it should be either faster or slower than normal hard racing, but I can see how keeping the hull clean would be easier with copper coat. Fouling during our 2 month summer cruise was removed with literally a light wipe of a car wash sponge.
Bosun Higgs
N/A
Can quite believe that. Our previous boat had epoxy applied by roller by me working on my own, so the finish was like the surface of an orange. It seemed to have no bad effect at all on racing performance though I doubt whether any benefit would have been noticeable with the sort of boat I was sailing.
Doug_Stormforce
New member
Thanks guys for your thoughts.
I think the question i really should be asking is what race boats are using it? And if none why?
I think the question i really should be asking is what race boats are using it? And if none why?
macd
Active member
I they're serious, big-budget race boats, none at all. Why bother when they're hardly ever in the water? (And if you wondered what those winch oxen did when not sailing, it's often polishing the bum. I might add the thought that such polishing was effectively free and probably did no harm, so why not?)
Seriously, I'd love to see some empirical info on this. It's cod science (but utterly natural) to sense that super-smooth surfaces reduce drag. MV Agusta always polished their valve tracts to a mirror finish, but it made not a blind bit of difference. How the hell they (not MV, someone else) developed the modern golf ball, I don't know, but evidently someone was thinking outside the usual envelope (as they say these days). Laminar flow is the general phenomenon, but that's as far as my understanding goes. Considering the budgets involved, someone out there must know an awful lot more.
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Marsupial
New member
Oyster use copper coat on their racing boats
http://coppercoat.com/coppercoat-info/antifouling-performance
http://coppercoat.com/coppercoat-info/antifouling-performance
Bosun Higgs
N/A
Been reading a tome ( Bethwaite) and apparently there are two forms of foil - those desugned for laminar flow which are very thin and those where surface turbulence is expected like boat hulls. For the former, surface smoothness makes a big difference since the water is flowing fast past the surface on a micro level. For the latter its less important since the water on the surface of the foil stays with the foil and there is shear in the water as you move out from the foil. MInd you the difference he was tyalking about was the difference between polished and 1000 grade wet and dry finish. He wasnt talking about great big lumps sticking off the surface! All paraphrased - much more technically elegant explanation in the book.
There is absolutely no reason why you cant get every bit as smooth a surface on an epoxy as on a paint. In fact you can get a mirror finish on an epoxy. Just more effort since its harder to sand.
Doug_Stormforce
New member
I think it says than one Oyster owner has used it rather than Oyster themselves use it across the board. Unless I have missed something somewhere else in the text.
Fluter
New member
I'm trying a new product by Epiphanes this year called Neosil. I have no idea if its gonna work but I heard good reports about it from someone at the Dusseldorf Boat Show. Coppercoat is not great for the environment and there has been some problems with application - often blamed on prepping the hull I believe. Neosil is a silicone based hard system that looks like gloss paint. The silicone means that (apparently) nothing can adhere to it. I've been warned the hull could be so slick that the boat risks slipping out the slings - I like the sound of that..
If the claims are right, the boat will self-polish at about 7 knots or at least it needs nothing than a light sponge-off to remove slime. I love the idea - only hope it works. It lasts seven to ten years and is environmentally friendly. I'll let you know how I get on. We are using it on little trad race boat. Only problem is I've got to get all the old product off before applying (it's a three pack system - primer, mid coat and top coat) and I'm in the middle of burning off now - not nice. Check out the product at http://www.neosil.nl/en/watersport/. I'm going out on a limb a bit with this but hey - the regular white antifoul I've been using is practically ineffective anyway, so it's can't be much worse.
If the claims are right, the boat will self-polish at about 7 knots or at least it needs nothing than a light sponge-off to remove slime. I love the idea - only hope it works. It lasts seven to ten years and is environmentally friendly. I'll let you know how I get on. We are using it on little trad race boat. Only problem is I've got to get all the old product off before applying (it's a three pack system - primer, mid coat and top coat) and I'm in the middle of burning off now - not nice. Check out the product at http://www.neosil.nl/en/watersport/. I'm going out on a limb a bit with this but hey - the regular white antifoul I've been using is practically ineffective anyway, so it's can't be much worse.
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Good luck with Neosil. I've always admired pioneers, but I've never wanted to be one!
armchairsailor
Active member
I remember years ago chatting to a chemical engineery type chap we knew who was trying to develop the same idea. Looks like someone's finally succeeded. Good stuff.
macd
Active member
1. Yes that's strictly true: the environment rarely goes "gimme, gimme, gimme" about anything manufactured. But Coppercoat is classified as non-leeching, is used by the UK environmental agency, approved by it's (very demanding) US counterpart, so I can't see why you suggest the opposite.
2. No product in the history of paint and coatings has been without "some problems". Yes, like all of them, preparation is key, but so what? It's not especially fussy.
Fluter
New member
Yes you are entirely right, the environmental thing relates to the nasty copper leaching soft paints and not Coppercoat.
tcm
...
well, ok, but at least the longer-term antifoul (coppercoat and others incl your silicone stuff) must be seen as a whole heap better environmentally than self-eroding paint or other paints that get jetblasted down the sluice every year? Anyway, not really an issue - all that environmental handwringing is a bit last year post-BP [/windup]
