Cooking on board.

[boatmike]

With a Mobo which has a big battery bank and supplementary generator when needed I am reflecting upon cooking methods on board. While underway I have 2 90 Amp alternators and when in marinas can hook up to shore supply so I have already decided that a good microwave with perhaps a conventional element for occasional use is more use than a gas oven and an electric kettle and toaster are useful additions. Frankly we have never had much success with little gas ovens anyway as they seem to burn at the back and undercook at the front. Obviously the whole system will need careful power management, but it occurs to me that one of the pains of travel through Spain and France is that the only reliable source of fuel is Camping Gaz which is bloody expensive and only obtainable in little bottles. Reducing, but not of course eliminating the use of Gaz would therefore be useful so with this as the objective I am thinking of adding a 2 ring induction hob alongside the gas hob for use ONLY when on shore supply of running the genny. It appears these can be bought with a total of about 3000watts..... Have I missed something?

 

[GrahamM376]

We find our 2 burner gas cooker is fine for everything. Roasts well, had leg of lamb a couple of days ago, shepherds pie on menu for tonight. Camping Gaz far cheaper in Portugal, Spain etc than in the UK. Have a microwave as well but generally only used when in a marina, generator too noisy if neighbours on anchor.

 

[boatmike]

So what is the cost of Camping Gaz in France and Spain then? I have seen it at higher than UK prices in Brittany but perhaps less further south? I also see caravan owners talking about other brands of Gas obtainable from Supermarkets. The big problem as I see it with CGaz is the tiny bottles. If there were bigger bottles like Calor available then perhaps I would not worry about induction cooking.
I am also interested in what Graham says regarding roasting. Never had much success ourselves. What do others think? What brands of oven do you have?

 

[duncan99210]

Never had a problem cooking using the gas stove. Indeed, much prefer it to the wretched electric things, no matter what flavour they are. Easily controlled and simple. I agree that the oven on our stove (an Eno) is not the best but it produces very acceptable roasts, scones, cakes and biscuits/cookies. We use about one gaz bottle every three weeks when living aboard during the winter and five weeks during the summer, when we actually tend to use the Cobb more than anything else. Cheap in Greece (9 euro or so) but more expensive elsewhere (ranging from 25 in Italy to 15 or so in Spain).

 

[ribrage]

With a Mobo which has a big battery bank and supplementary generator when needed I am reflecting upon cooking methods on board. While underway I have 2 90 Amp alternators and when in marinas can hook up to shore supply so I have already decided that a good microwave with perhaps a conventional element for occasional use is more use than a gas oven and an electric kettle and toaster are useful additions. Frankly we have never had much success with little gas ovens anyway as they seem to burn at the back and undercook at the front. Obviously the whole system will need careful power management, but it occurs to me that one of the pains of travel through Spain and France is that the only reliable source of fuel is Camping Gaz which is bloody expensive and only obtainable in little bottles. Reducing, but not of course eliminating the use of Gaz would therefore be useful so with this as the objective I am thinking of adding a 2 ring induction hob alongside the gas hob for use ONLY when on shore supply of running the genny. It appears these can be bought with a total of about 3000watts..... Have I missed something?

butane is sold in most petrol stations - in Spain it's subsidised as the locals use it a lot. Much MUCH cheaper than say calor gas in the UK. We use cepsa bottles as they are aluminium and don't leave rusty rings behind. A large cepsa bottle is similar in price to the silly little camping Gaz bottles

 

[boatmike]

Interesting variance in price there then. Interesting also that you say you use a Cobb. I have a Magma oven/barbeque (gas version) which I have never used and intend to install on the aft rail where it can stay a lot of the time when in the med. Has anyone had any success using these as an oven? What I didn't say is that we need to maximise the space available and as we have never had very good results with titchy ovens (plastimo, SMEV etc) are considering replacing the oven with a microwave as it will be difficult to find room for both.......
The induction hob idea was simply because it takes up very little space and saves gas. Only really available with shore power though......

 

[Trident]

A 13kg bottle of gas is £8 in Spain right now - all are priced the same as they're regulated by the government (11.50 euro) - one last us 6 months with a gas oven and two burner hob

Inductions hobs work well two - we had two encounters with Lagoons that had them in this summer and worked off solar and batteries but you do need ferrous cookware of course...

I'd be tempted to go induction on my Prout as we have plenty of solar but at the price of gas down here I just can't justify it - its available absolutely everywhere - no contracts needed (you need a bottle to swap but almost every junk store sell them for €5 and the Repsol lorries will sell you one off the back for €20 full - then you swapit when empty at any garage for 11.50)

Its just too easy as the whole country runs on bottled gas not mains

 

[GrahamM376]

So what is the cost of Camping Gaz in France and Spain then?

8 years since I've been in France so don't know. Portugal CG varies between € 11.75 & 16.20, IIRC Spain is much the same. Many liveaboards staying in a country for a while rent larger local cylinder and strap to the taff rail. Also possible to get adapters to refill most types of cylinder.

 

[TQA]

I had a two burner Flavel gas cooker on my first stint, 7 years as a liveaboard cruiser. Seventh year on my retirement boat with the Rolls Royce of boat stoves a four burner Force 10.

I have cooked roasts, made bread and brownies and lots of biscuits. Yes you need to turn stuff around in the oven during cooking, but no big deal.

I also have a simple Magma rail barbecue, it is a little tricky to manage the heat but it does great roast potatoes when I get it right.

 

[AndrewB]

I am also interested in what Graham says regarding roasting. Never had much success ourselves. What do others think? What brands of oven do you have?

When we switched from Plastimo Neptune to Force 10 suddenly roasting worked. It's down to the heat deflector I think.

 

[duncan99210]

We use the Cobb as a standard BBQ and for roasting: does a mean job on a leg of lamb or a chicken. Never used it as an oven for baking but the Hairy Bikers use them as ovens in many of their recipes.

 

[NornaBiron]

We use the Cobb as a standard BBQ and for roasting: does a mean job on a leg of lamb or a chicken. Never used it as an oven for baking but the Hairy Bikers use them as ovens in many of their recipes.

We use our Cobb for all our cooking in the summer - bread, cakes, stews, curries, grills, roasts etc. It takes a bit of getting use to and experimentation to get the right number of briquettes for the heat required. I even made the Christmas cake on it last year!

 

[OldBawley]

Would like the cobb but heard it needs the briquettes.
Have a friend who is a chef and he is all wild about the Green Egg. They have a small version and apparently normal charcoal ( which is abundant on most beaches ) works well.
Anyone tried it ?

BTW We have a 2 burner gas cooker but use the wood stove most of the time. In case of emergency I can cook on the diesel stove, a spare gas burner and a Hypollyto kerosene burner. We also cary a wood fired braai.
Why all these options ?
Before, long long ago, in the middle of nowhere, an empty gas bottle AND an empty spare bottle was the start of an argument that led to becoming single again.

 

[NornaBiron]

Would like the cobb but heard it needs the briquettes.

The Cobb will run on any charcoal. You don't have to buy the expensive 'cobblestones' but you do have to get use to using it with the fuel you choose. We use the bamboo/coconut charcoal found in grill houses in Greece and Turkey, burns hot and long. We extinguish the coals after cooking, let them dry in the sun and reuse them.

 

[blampied]

With a Mobo which has a big battery bank and supplementary generator when needed I am reflecting upon cooking methods on board. While underway I have 2 90 Amp alternators and when in marinas can hook up to shore supply so I have already decided that a good microwave with perhaps a conventional element for occasional use is more use than a gas oven and an electric kettle and toaster are useful additions. Frankly we have never had much success with little gas ovens anyway as they seem to burn at the back and undercook at the front. Obviously the whole system will need careful power management, but it occurs to me that one of the pains of travel through Spain and France is that the only reliable source of fuel is Camping Gaz which is bloody expensive and only obtainable in little bottles. Reducing, but not of course eliminating the use of Gaz would therefore be useful so with this as the objective I am thinking of adding a 2 ring induction hob alongside the gas hob for use ONLY when on shore supply of running the genny. It appears these can be bought with a total of about 3000watts..... Have I missed something?

Hi Mike, how are your plans progressing?
As we have the same Aquastar 33 boat in my experience.
You need both gas and electric.
Electric shore power we have had 90% of the time, it's for the other 10% you need gas.
(We only have 1x 60w alternator. For emergencies we have a 2kw portable petrol generator & 2kw invertor)
Gas bottles in Spain are very cheep, highly regulated by the Spanish government

Gas:- We have a Smev gas cooker with four ring gas hob,
cooker works well, yes I agree heat can be a bit uneven but not badly so, turn the food around every 15 minutes.
The four ring hob is a bit over the top, I don't recall ever using more than two at any one time.

Electric:- we have a Panasonic NN-K181MM combi microwave works very well
Induction hob, only single ring, works very well,
A cheap little George Forman lean mean grilling machine we ditched and bought a French equivalent only half ribbed and lid can be propped open (essential for not squashing the crosants)
Both electric and Gas kettles and an electric toaster.
Plug in big square Electric frying pan with a glass lid. We find we can cook most anything in it.
A small slow cooker, only used it a few times
A pressure cooker, we never got arround to using so last time we drove down with the car we took it home.

I will send you a photo of our installation.

 

[boatmike]

Thanks for that Paul. I see you agree that the electric hob is a good idea. As I intend to re-organise the current galley and we both enjoy cooking (and eating!) I am reviewing past experience. I have never found gas cookers very successful either in boats or caravans and while I see that people recommend the Force 10 it is very expensive. My thoughts at this moment are to install a microwave with built in convection oven and grill. We have one of these at home and it actually roasts far better than any little gas oven because it is in effect a fan oven and has uniform heat. A 4 burner spinflo argent gas hob with matching sink and drainer, both with glass lids and a viesta built in 2 burner induction hob (less than £100) should suffice and we also have the BBQ on the aft rail which is probably going to get a lot of use for steaks, fish and breakfasts. An electric kettle and toaster are obviously called for too and the total cost of everything should be less than a top of the range Force 10 cooker by a long shot. I am also mindful that most live-aboard replies are from sailboats and having moved from sail to power I think it's a different philosophy. With the 37ft cat I used to have we used to anchor off a lot and conservation of leccy was very important. With boats like ours however we are more likely to be in marinas (for many reasons) and hooked up to power. When not we are under engine and in my case producing up to 180amps to recharge the batteries. As I have over 450amp/hours of domestic battery and a built in diesel genny I can afford to be less economical (within reason)

 

[charles_reed]

In answer to the OP question, most big yachts, especially in the US have electric cooking - but they all have big generators and don't rely on shorepower for cooking. In fact in a couple of French marinas I was in the usual cause of a power outage was too many elements being turned on.
For the 6/12 I'm on the boat I cook on a top-end Leisure Products/Plastimo stove - it's large enough to cook a meal for 6, at a pinch. I've never experienced the reported problems with the oven reported by many, but I've reseated the oven door with replacement sealing strips.
During the 6/12 at home I cook with a full fitted electric stove, a halogen oven and a microwave.
Both are perfectly adequate means of cooking and many of the recipes developed for the boat have become firm favourites ashore.
I'd suggest the OP's cookery is theoretical rather than practical - the only thing I miss on the boat is the microwave for vegetables.
Refills of the 904 Gaz bottle cost me between €6-8 (Refills NOT replacements) swap bottles are about twice that price. I x 3kg bottle lasts me about 28 days at anchor and about 35 days with shorepower (I have an electric kettle for tea and washing-up).

 

[OldBawley]

Agree electric is the easiest, least hassle and probably the safest way of cooking on board.
My friend the Swedish chef ( actually he is not Swedish but talks just like his famous muppet colleague ) has all the newest gadgets in his kingdom, believe me, modern restaurant cooking is very high tech and a lot about chemistry also.
Still he convinced his boss to buy three big Green Eggs. He claims food from a Kamado has that extra “Special” Cheff´s like him are always on the lookout for new stuff, innovation.
Modern cooking may be fast en easy, old fashioned slow cooking sure is more tasty.

Had an acquaintance who chartered with his big cat out of Göcek Turkey. Big boat, lots of solar, all electric cooking. Last year we ware in Turkey he had his annual renovation works, Johan told me he went back to gas cooking.
Why ? Well, he had mostly Turkish customers last years and Turks cook and eat day and night.
Told me that even with gigantic solar and a lot of extra household battery´s a bunch of 15 hungry Turks cooked up all his juice. Back to gas.

 

[boatmike]

So you think Charles Reed that our cooking is "theoretical"? What do you mean by that prey? I have been cooking myself for over 50 years both afloat and ashore and considered by most who have tasted my food to be rather good at it. My wife in fact has been in the catering business and is an excellent and well qualified cook. Anyone who knows about cooking will tell you that where there are no power restrictions, while gas is very useful for hob cooking, most professional chefs prefer electric ovens. The question I asked was related to the use of a Mobo expected to be on shore supply much of the time where limited electricity makes it possible to consider alternatives that are not possible for the average sailboat. It is obvious that other references to solar charging relates mainly to sailboats. Frankly anyone considering maintaining the use of even a modest 3000watt 2 burner induction hob with only solar power to recharge batteries has not understood the problem and will need more than a few solar panels to compensate for the excessive drain.
For the record thank you to all those who made polite responses which have been generally very helpful. I am sure many find the normal gas ovens more than adequate and unless you are on shore power, or running a genny when not it's clearly the best alternative for a sailboat. In my case though I have 2- 90 amp alternators running whenever I move and a 4Kw built in generator and 600amp hours of 12v battery with a full sine wave inverter available when not. Apart from this I also expect to be on shore supply much of the time so gas will be a supplement to an otherwise electric boat. Solar is not useful under these circumstances at all unless used to keep the batteries topped up when not running engines or plugged in ashore which is generally very seldom.

 

[Garry & June 'Friendship']

This is our first year as liveaboards and I can give you exactly what we spent on Camping Gas on our way down to the Algarve. We carry 3 bottles which we rotate and you will be surprised just how long Camping Gas lasts for. Firstly just forget about rip off Britain...£30 a bottle in Mylor and pretty much everywhere around Falmouth.
Gigon in France it was 24eu (all these prices obviously exchange)
Ilse Cies in the Spanish Rias 20eu
Cascais Portugal 16.50eu
Alvor Portugal 14.25eu
Lagos Portugal 12.80eu

When in the marina we use a microwave, toaster, kettle and have also invested in a small portable induction hob. This makes things far far more civilised. The only problem we have encountered is if you forget to switch off our electric oil filled radiator it will trip the electric if you put the hob on as well. We do use the gas alongside the hob and my wife can cook pretty much anything...including a full on Sunday roast.. we have a Smev Oven. We as many others use our Cobb and now, because I really detest having to clean the thing, have found somewhere that sells the Cobb foil liners which you can just lift out and throw away when you have finished cooking.

ps my wife would also like to give a tip...invest in a Mr D Thermal cooker...she says it is fantastic for stews and casserole's.