Contraction in the motor boating industry

[petem]

Last year we saw Sealine close down in the UK; yesterday MBM announced the end of publication.

My bet is that this year will be the last London Boat Show and perhaps we won't see all of the remaining big three manufacturers exhibiting. I'd go further to say that another of the big three will go to the wall within the next couple of years*.

Survival of the fittest I guess.



* Needless to day, I hope I'm wrong on this front.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Where did you see the MBM announcement? Unfortunately the mag has had its day, and I speak as someone who has been a reader for the best part of 30 years. I'm still a subscriber but generally it takes me less than 30 minutes to read anything that interests me, ie very little.

 

[boatone]

Where did you see the MBM announcement?

See "Sticky" post at head of this forum:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?406487-Motor-Boats-Monthly-update

 

[bumpy_the_dog]

Last year we saw Sealine close down in the UK; yesterday MBM announced the end of publication.

I don't disagree with your general point, but I'm not sure a boating magazine closing its doors is in itself evidence of declining boat sales. I've spent my working life in the media industry and the rise of digital/on-line is killing company after company, maybe MBM was laid low by the same problems that have claimed magazines ranging from "Nuts" to "Newsweek"?

 

[superheat6k]

I don't disagree with your general point, but I'm not sure a boating magazine closing its doors is in itself evidence of declining boat sales. I've spent my working life in the media industry and the rise of digital/on-line is killing company after company, maybe MBM was laid low by the same problems that have claimed magazines ranging from "Nuts" to "Newsweek"?

+1 for Roy's comments. Motorboat magazine launched by Neale and Clare a year ago on line is excellent, free and simple to access, I never did suss out how to get MBM on the ipad. With Motorboat there are even two formats to choose from. For the last two months my editions have sat for at least two weeks before I have even bothered opening them.

I am sad for the demise of MBM, but my own industry trade magazines have been the mainstay for our firms advertising for years. Now we just don't see any value for the marketing budget spent compared with an effective google campaign. They have simply run out of things to say, and have fewer people bothering to read them. Format changes do not cut it.

Loss of a magazine is not loss of the boating industry. The LIBS show is likely going because its simply soleless, at the wrong end of London and is great for an awful day out. Not a patch on the old location at Earls Court. Once inside just about OK, but what a horrible place docklands really is - one massive building site with a river flowing past, especially on a Sunday. SIBS has shrunk a bit as a result of the recession, but still a great day out in a true salt air atmosphere.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Honestly I think the end of the tunnel is near, or very close.

More then contraction it became more competitive.

I do not think that any of the top three British brands will close down, both look okay.

But here is a recent review....

Sunseeker did send a signal again with the abandon ship of its CEO, although on the outside they look in a good position and reliable financial backing from the Chinese wealthy owner. (still no one likes to loose money)
Fairline looks the most vulnerable of the three because of its location and increasing size problem, and last its financial fund invester owner.
Princess look at a very good spot since the LV take over since half a decade and are just getting better.

 

[[2068]]

Fairline looks the most vulnerable of the three because of its location and increasing size problem and its financial owner.

Are there any examples of boat builders owned by Venture Capitalists that have actually turned around and survived?

 

[maby]

...

Loss of a magazine is not loss of the boating industry. The LIBS show is likely going because its simply soleless, at the wrong end of London and is great for an awful day out. Not a patch on the old location at Earls Court. Once inside just about OK, but what a horrible place docklands really is - one massive building site with a river flowing past, especially on a Sunday. SIBS has shrunk a bit as a result of the recession, but still a great day out in a true salt air atmosphere.

I like LIBS and will be sorry to see it go - but, on the other hand, I live just North of London and it is easy for me to get there. I shall not be going to Southampton this year - got nothing significant to research or buy and it is simply too far away. Earls Court was a horrible place and a real pain to get to - at least by car.

 

[Medskipper]

Last year we saw Sealine close down in the UK; yesterday MBM announced the end of publication.

My bet is that this year will be the last London Boat Show and perhaps we won't see all of the remaining big three manufacturers exhibiting. I'd go further to say that another of the big three will go to the wall within the next couple of years*.

Survival of the fittest I guess.


I've been boating 30 years or so, when I started I purchased a Birchwood 25. Lovely family cruiser for a family on the Thames or other rivers. At the time there were hundreds of boats of all makes this sort of size. They were affordable for a lot of people but over those 30 years manufacturers have produced larger and more expensive craft. Now that's fine for the few who can afford them but in my view what they have done is exclude a lot of people from starting out with a small boat! Plus the fact that people who can afford those large vessels are few and far between now! people like me have moved up in size over the years! When I go to a boat show now there is nothing I can afford there and I go as far as to say like many others as well!
IMHO manufacturers go for the big profit on a huge vessel rather than produce lots of smaller boats which will make probably as much money but with a bit more work involved. They need to get back to the old M&S idea of numbers against profits, because when younger people coming into boating discover what a wonderful hobby it is will stick at it and trade up in years to come! That also means they will buy things like magazines as well.

 

[petem]

IMHO manufacturers go for the big profit on a huge vessel rather than produce lots of smaller boats which will make probably as much money but with a bit more work involved. They need to get back to the old M&S idea of numbers against profits, because when younger people coming into boating discover what a wonderful hobby it is will stick at it and trade up in years to come! That also means they will buy things like magazines as well.

That's what happens when companies are run by accountants and not enthusiasts.

 

[volvopaul]

That's what happens when companies are run by accountants and not enthusiasts.

I'd say they all are.
Accountants / investment co bought recently both broom and sealine , both companies sit on good land that will suit housing , shopping complex etc. boats can be built anywhere to road transport size, sealine hit the wall at 60 ft.
Fairline will struggle in years to come and need to move site to expand, if they survive.
The Howard's way days were gone a long time ago. I can only think of aqua stars geoff Wilson that still has the " jack Rolfe" approach .

 

[rafiki_]

The boatbuilding industry needs to learn a bit from automotive. The best and most profitable companies are led by product people, not bean countres. Norbert Reithofer heads BMW, a product guy with manufacturing skills as well. They are doing OK. JLR headed by Ralph Speth, another product guy, and since Speth took the reigns, the profits have been magnificent. VW Group run by Piech, a product guy. Ford has been run by bean countres, as has GM. Their long term future is very challenging because they cannot derive decent margins, as their products are not good enough to do so. These leaders are always financially very savvy, and have a deep understanding of the industry. They recognise the importance of the brand, and are charismatic, so that staff follow them.
Lessons for the boat builders!

 

[hlb]

The final straw was the fuel tax, but the rot has been setting in for years.

To a great extent the industry is suffering from it's own success. To many power hungry gadget's, making it nearly impossible to stop anywhere but an expensive marina. Marina to marina is very boring, but there is hardly anywhere left to avoid them. The whole point of boating is the adventure, but that has now been sanitized, but very expensive sanitization.

In short, there is very little excitement in owning a boat now.

 

[NGM]

In short, there is very little excitement in owning a boat now.

Personally I couldn't disagree more. I'm relatively new to boating. We have a mix of day boating, marina hoping and the occasional longer cruise. We love every bit of it. I suspect it's just run its course for you !

 

[Portofino]

In short, there is very little excitement in owning a boat now.[/QUOTE]

I would disagree with the above.My boat is in the SoF only 12 M ,but has a Geny + Aircon .
Every trip is a mini adventure ,or ends up one .
Which country this time ? Which island ? Which anchorage ? What food onshore -fancy a Mitch star tonight?
Where shall we snorkel today?
For us it's an escape -most times we have no plan ' just set off @ 28 knots for a few hours and pull up 100 miles or so later E or W or S .
Or hang around and enjoy the the razza matazz of the Cote d Azur - Cannes film festival, Monaco GP ,Cannes boat show ,
+ much more boaty related activity .

 

[andy59]

In short, there is very little excitement in owning a boat now.

I would disagree with the above.My boat is in the SoF only 12 M ,but has a Geny + Aircon .
Every trip is a mini adventure ,or ends up one .
Which country this time ? Which island ? Which anchorage ? What food onshore -fancy a Mitch star tonight?
Where shall we snorkel today?
For us it's an escape -most times we have no plan ' just set off @ 28 knots for a few hours and pull up 100 miles or so later E or W or S .
Or hang around and enjoy the the razza matazz of the Cote d Azur - Cannes film festival, Monaco GP ,Cannes boat show ,
+ much more boaty related activity .[/QUOTE]

OK where do I sign up

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

The boatbuilding industry needs to learn a bit from automotive. The best and most profitable companies are led by product people, not bean countres.

Instinctively I agree with you but it's easy to be a 'product guy' if you've got a bottomless pit of money called BMW, VW or Ford funding you and the luxury of a 5-7 yr turnaround plan. The problem is that boat building is a cottage industry in which most companies can only afford a year or 2 of losses before they go bust or their funders pull the plug. That's the real world of running small to medium sized companies and it's no wonder that the bean counters hold sway, especially during a recession in which turnover is down and margins squeezed.
I also agree with hlb. I'm no global warming supporting tree hugger but IMHO, the motorboating industry better find a more efficient way of powering it's products because eventually, rising fuel costs and environmental pressures are going to kill the industry. IMHO it's no coincidence that boat builders are having to move upmarket and build larger boats to find profits because the cost of running a motorboat is already moving beyond the means of the average punter. If the industry isn't careful, in a few years time, the only market they'll have will be selling 100ft+ boats to Russian oligarchs and hedge fund managers

 

[oldgit]

Instinctively I agree with you but it's easy to be a 'product guy' if you've got a bottomless pit of money called BMW, VW or Ford funding you and the luxury of a 5-7 yr turnaround plan. The problem is that boat building is a cottage industry in which most companies can only afford a year or 2 of losses before they go bust or their funders pull the plug. That's the real world of running small to medium sized companies and it's no wonder that the bean counters hold sway, especially during a recession in which turnover is down and margins squeezed.
I also agree with hlb. I'm no global warming supporting tree hugger but IMHO, the motorboating industry better find a more efficient way of powering it's products because eventually, rising fuel costs and environmental pressures are going to kill the industry. IMHO it's no coincidence that boat builders are having to move upmarket and build larger boats to find profits because the cost of running a motorboat is already moving beyond the means of the average punter. If the industry isn't careful, in a few years time, the only market they'll have will be selling 100ft+ boats to Russian oligarchs and hedge fund managers

+1

 

[volvopaul]

Last year we saw Sealine close down in the UK; yesterday MBM announced the end of publication.

My bet is that this year will be the last London Boat Show and perhaps we won't see all of the remaining big three manufacturers exhibiting. I'd go further to say that another of the big three will go to the wall within the next couple of years*.

Survival of the fittest I guess.


I've been boating 30 years or so, when I started I purchased a Birchwood 25. Lovely family cruiser for a family on the Thames or other rivers. At the time there were hundreds of boats of all makes this sort of size. They were affordable for a lot of people but over those 30 years manufacturers have produced larger and more expensive craft. Now that's fine for the few who can afford them but in my view what they have done is exclude a lot of people from starting out with a small boat! Plus the fact that people who can afford those large vessels are few and far between now! people like me have moved up in size over the years! When I go to a boat show now there is nothing I can afford there and I go as far as to say like many others as well!
IMHO manufacturers go for the big profit on a huge vessel rather than produce lots of smaller boats which will make probably as much money but with a bit more work involved. They need to get back to the old M&S idea of numbers against profits, because when younger people coming into boating discover what a wonderful hobby it is will stick at it and trade up in years to come! That also means they will buy things like magazines as well.

A great reply, I agree with you on this, loosing sealine for example was not only a blow for the staff and associated companies that fed from it but it has narrowed the market considerably for people starting out that want to buy a uk built boat.
There are not many buyers coming into boating as a virgin with 300k plus in there pocket. I just hope we don't loose another one.

 

[oldgit]

Just a IMHO observation
It is not an accident that the small entry boat market is totally captured by Beneteau, Jeanneau.Avor etc all of which are French built.
A similar situation occurred in the light aviation world some time ago with the French government giving "encouragement" to the industry. Financial help was given in setting up factories and most (all ?) small airfields are owned by local authorities.
Robin came to dominate the market with its only rival being from the US. UKs effort was a rump of pocket home builders.
The same situation has now hit the boat market.
It is uncanny how the hobby of boating has followed that of flying,virtually nobody on an ordinary income (26k) can afford to fly even with shared ownership being the norm.

What did hobby flyers do, they reduced the complication and expense by designing and flying microlights.ultra lights,auto gyros etc etc.
All the fun but without the crippling expense of a mini ultra posh commercial jetliner.
£300k for UK starter boat anyone ?
As the days of setting up home with a few sticks of donated furniture and an orange box have long gone so has converting some leaky old hull with a bucket for a toilet to get afloat..
If you cannot get newcomers into the hobby on a budget its on a downward spiral.Fuel costs did not help but who builds all those single engine economical boats ?
The UKs inability to go sea with less than two engines is also a bit of a mystery.Presumably the Dutch, French,Spanish and Scandinavians never go out of sight of shore.