david_e
Active member
Re: Seacrackers
not found any of these in a brief search so far, are there many about?
not found any of these in a brief search so far, are there many about?
Contessa 32 v Sadler 32 or?
- Thread starter david_e
- Start date
Jeremy_W
New member
Re: Seacrackers
Take a look at "http://www.seacracker.org/" - a site lovingly created by Humperdinck, a regular of this forum.
Take a look at "http://www.seacracker.org/" - a site lovingly created by Humperdinck, a regular of this forum.
NDG
Member
I bought a Co32 a year ago - our first boat. It is a 1972 boat and is in excellent condition, although having said that I don't think she has been raced much, if at all. I really cannot find any fault with her. Perhaps she is a little slow in light winds, but then again that could be because we have been carrying a lot of cruising gear around with us. Her accommodation is also cramped by modern standards, but then most of our sailing is just two of us, so thats never a problem. You should check that the aft lowers have been strengthened at the deck.
Her upwind performance, especially in stronger winds, is nothing short of astonishing. This applies both to her speed and angle to the wind - she seems to lurve a good beat into a 5 or 6. Her general performance in heavier conditions (strongest so far is a F8) is also excellent, and for me these characteristics count for a lot. Its true that you will get a lot of water flying at you and coming over the decks!
I can't compare with a Sadler, as I've never sailed in one, but if you get a Co32 with a good survey, you won't be disappointed.
Her upwind performance, especially in stronger winds, is nothing short of astonishing. This applies both to her speed and angle to the wind - she seems to lurve a good beat into a 5 or 6. Her general performance in heavier conditions (strongest so far is a F8) is also excellent, and for me these characteristics count for a lot. Its true that you will get a lot of water flying at you and coming over the decks!
I can't compare with a Sadler, as I've never sailed in one, but if you get a Co32 with a good survey, you won't be disappointed.
doug748
Well-known member
I have a Contessa and love it, but again I am not interested in below deck room. coming from a Folkboat it feels like the Tardis anyway.
Point to look for: i) U bolts, (already mentioned) look carefully at shroud attachments, have they been beefed up - a good sign as the early originals were weak. ii) Main bulkhead/hull join. iii) Port side hull, any distortion or evidence of bunk base shifting? iv) Mast heel compression damage. v) Rudder. These problems are worse on heavily raced models, but are not critical if tackled in due course, and many boats have been updated.
If, like me, you sail shorthanded or singlehanded the Contessa is the one to go for.
Point to look for: i) U bolts, (already mentioned) look carefully at shroud attachments, have they been beefed up - a good sign as the early originals were weak. ii) Main bulkhead/hull join. iii) Port side hull, any distortion or evidence of bunk base shifting? iv) Mast heel compression damage. v) Rudder. These problems are worse on heavily raced models, but are not critical if tackled in due course, and many boats have been updated.
If, like me, you sail shorthanded or singlehanded the Contessa is the one to go for.
PeteMcK
New member
Under 30k?
Fulmar? Sadler 32? Where? Shurely shome mishtake? Or something wrong?
You're looking at older Contessas, older Moodys and older Sigmas.
Fulmar? Sadler 32? Where? Shurely shome mishtake? Or something wrong?
You're looking at older Contessas, older Moodys and older Sigmas.
david_e
Active member
Re: Under 30k?
there are a few sadler 32's under £30k, quite a few contessas. haven't seen any fulmars or the others yet, have ruled the sigma 33 out. this is one of the reasons behind my question, if there are any major faults, because it is more likley that the cheaper boats will have them?
there are a few sadler 32's under £30k, quite a few contessas. haven't seen any fulmars or the others yet, have ruled the sigma 33 out. this is one of the reasons behind my question, if there are any major faults, because it is more likley that the cheaper boats will have them?
Kurrawong_Kid
Well-known member
Consider a Centurion 32, designed by Kim Holman, built by the renowned Wauquiez yard in France. They built over 400 of them and they are very nicely fitted out below-a quality job! You find them all over Europe-much more widely located than Contessa 32's.
Good points-sail as well as a Sadler or Contessa in most conditions, certainly drier to windward than a Contessa. Splendid cockpit, useful sized lockers. Well laid out saloon(dinette, but will give 2 sea berths if lowered at sea) quarter berth, single saloon berth opposite dinette, splendid navigatorium, plenty of stowage. Easily handled deckstepped masthead rig with quality winches etc. Boom clears 6 footers in cockpit. Easy access forward with proper width side decks. Very well balanced helm-will sail herself when properly set up.
Reasonable points-adequate heads, although headroom restricted. Good sized forepeak, but very restricted headroom.
Poor points-galley is awkward to use because the engine compartment slopes and restricts feet access to the cooking space. It's also on the starboard side which is not favoured by the pundits! Crocks and cups stowage is good though. Engine access, apart from the front, is pretty dreadful, requiring taking the side out of starboard locker which means taking all the gear out etc.
Challenging point!- the propellor is offset to port which means that manouvering in confined spaces requires considerable skill to put it mildly!
However, they are a very good compromise which makes a splendid cruising boat which can take heavy weather in its stride. We've had ours for eleven seasons and cruised Southern Ireland, South Brittany, the Channel Coasts, Holland and the Western Baltic with no real problems and a lot of pleasure.
Currently at least 2 for sail in U.K. at the brokers at Beaulieu and at Lavenham at around £24000-might fit your requirements. Also www.botenbank.nl had three recently. Hope this helps
Good points-sail as well as a Sadler or Contessa in most conditions, certainly drier to windward than a Contessa. Splendid cockpit, useful sized lockers. Well laid out saloon(dinette, but will give 2 sea berths if lowered at sea) quarter berth, single saloon berth opposite dinette, splendid navigatorium, plenty of stowage. Easily handled deckstepped masthead rig with quality winches etc. Boom clears 6 footers in cockpit. Easy access forward with proper width side decks. Very well balanced helm-will sail herself when properly set up.
Reasonable points-adequate heads, although headroom restricted. Good sized forepeak, but very restricted headroom.
Poor points-galley is awkward to use because the engine compartment slopes and restricts feet access to the cooking space. It's also on the starboard side which is not favoured by the pundits! Crocks and cups stowage is good though. Engine access, apart from the front, is pretty dreadful, requiring taking the side out of starboard locker which means taking all the gear out etc.
Challenging point!- the propellor is offset to port which means that manouvering in confined spaces requires considerable skill to put it mildly!
However, they are a very good compromise which makes a splendid cruising boat which can take heavy weather in its stride. We've had ours for eleven seasons and cruised Southern Ireland, South Brittany, the Channel Coasts, Holland and the Western Baltic with no real problems and a lot of pleasure.
Currently at least 2 for sail in U.K. at the brokers at Beaulieu and at Lavenham at around £24000-might fit your requirements. Also www.botenbank.nl had three recently. Hope this helps
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Faults? Not necessarily
>major faults, because it is more likley that the cheaper boats will have them?<
Odds are that any inherent major faults will have been put right by now, unless the owners have been particularly uncaring.
What is more likely is that the the £30K+ boats have had things done/extras like re-engining, topsides repaint, new sails, standing and running rigging replaced, modern electronics, dinghy and outboard, etc
>major faults, because it is more likley that the cheaper boats will have them?<
Odds are that any inherent major faults will have been put right by now, unless the owners have been particularly uncaring.
What is more likely is that the the £30K+ boats have had things done/extras like re-engining, topsides repaint, new sails, standing and running rigging replaced, modern electronics, dinghy and outboard, etc
bedouin
Well-known member
I of course agree with every word you say - but them I'm biased.
When looking for a new boat 3 years ago I compared a Contessa 32 with a Centurion 32; both for sale in the same yard at the same price. I chose then Centurion mainly because the quality of the fit out was much higher, and the internal arrangement much easier to live with than the Co32.
When looking for a new boat 3 years ago I compared a Contessa 32 with a Centurion 32; both for sale in the same yard at the same price. I chose then Centurion mainly because the quality of the fit out was much higher, and the internal arrangement much easier to live with than the Co32.
david_e
Active member
thanks for your information and views, will have a lok at this boat.
NDG
Member
Re: Faults? Not necessarily
I agree with Twister Ken. I have one of the earliest Co32's (1972), and she's been looked after, simple as that. With an established design like any of the boats being discussed here, I don't think it matters whether she is 10 yrs old or 30, the key question is how well the they have been looked after. I think you are better going for a good old boat than an OK young one myself.
Having said that, having looked around a bit when I bought mine, I reckon that in the sub £30k bracket for a Co32 you are probably looking at a boat that might need some work, but thats not necessarily a bad thing.
I agree with Twister Ken. I have one of the earliest Co32's (1972), and she's been looked after, simple as that. With an established design like any of the boats being discussed here, I don't think it matters whether she is 10 yrs old or 30, the key question is how well the they have been looked after. I think you are better going for a good old boat than an OK young one myself.
Having said that, having looked around a bit when I bought mine, I reckon that in the sub £30k bracket for a Co32 you are probably looking at a boat that might need some work, but thats not necessarily a bad thing.
PeteMcK
New member
Age
All the boats I mentioned above are basically ok, if quite different in design, and all have their fans. They are of similar value, age for age (with the exception of the Sigma which tends to be a bit cheaper). As a buyer, your most important consideration is likely to be the boat's condition, but age has a very significant bearing on the price too. From what I've seen, the 30k cut-off is 1980-ish for average examples, which means that a lot of Co32s, Mk1 and most Mk2 Moody 33s and a handful of Sadlers are within your range, and very few Fulmars. The flighty racing image perhaps puts cruising buyers off the Sigma (which might explain the lower price for a given age/condition). All 5 classes are kicking around Britain in big numbers (many hundreds of each, at least) and should be reasonably easy to come by (but with the age/price proviso). The Co, M33 and Sadler are equally fast/slow according to their racing handicaps, the Fulmar is 4% quicker and the Sigma is about 6% quicker. All 5 have nominal displacements in the range of about 4.2 to 4.7 tonnes. The Sigma is at the light end which, together with the biggest rig and deepest fin, gives it the added performance; it's my least favourite of the 5, though, tippy and broachy. Above 20 knots of apparent wind, the Sigma's speed advantage over the others, both upwind and down, has all but expired, and over 25 knots, some of the others begin to take over. As for which of the other 4 is the best sea boat (don't get into an argument you can't win!) they're all good but different. I'd be surprised if anyone comes up with major vices for any of them.
All the boats I mentioned above are basically ok, if quite different in design, and all have their fans. They are of similar value, age for age (with the exception of the Sigma which tends to be a bit cheaper). As a buyer, your most important consideration is likely to be the boat's condition, but age has a very significant bearing on the price too. From what I've seen, the 30k cut-off is 1980-ish for average examples, which means that a lot of Co32s, Mk1 and most Mk2 Moody 33s and a handful of Sadlers are within your range, and very few Fulmars. The flighty racing image perhaps puts cruising buyers off the Sigma (which might explain the lower price for a given age/condition). All 5 classes are kicking around Britain in big numbers (many hundreds of each, at least) and should be reasonably easy to come by (but with the age/price proviso). The Co, M33 and Sadler are equally fast/slow according to their racing handicaps, the Fulmar is 4% quicker and the Sigma is about 6% quicker. All 5 have nominal displacements in the range of about 4.2 to 4.7 tonnes. The Sigma is at the light end which, together with the biggest rig and deepest fin, gives it the added performance; it's my least favourite of the 5, though, tippy and broachy. Above 20 knots of apparent wind, the Sigma's speed advantage over the others, both upwind and down, has all but expired, and over 25 knots, some of the others begin to take over. As for which of the other 4 is the best sea boat (don't get into an argument you can't win!) they're all good but different. I'd be surprised if anyone comes up with major vices for any of them.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Re: Age
But there's more to it than just the sailing. Boat ownership probably divides into something like 10-20% sailing, the rest living on board. For many years it was my dream to own a Sigma 33, until I went on board. The accommodation is very basic, not even equivalent to what we then had on a Westerly GK29, so that dream faded very quickly. In addition to the sailing performance, seating, stowage, galley, sleeping arrangements etc must all be taken into account before parting with 30 grand.
But there's more to it than just the sailing. Boat ownership probably divides into something like 10-20% sailing, the rest living on board. For many years it was my dream to own a Sigma 33, until I went on board. The accommodation is very basic, not even equivalent to what we then had on a Westerly GK29, so that dream faded very quickly. In addition to the sailing performance, seating, stowage, galley, sleeping arrangements etc must all be taken into account before parting with 30 grand.
PeteMcK
New member
In which case...
You pays your money.
I agree. These boats do differ quite significantly in that respect and it's worth having a look at all of them before deciding.
You pays your money.
I agree. These boats do differ quite significantly in that respect and it's worth having a look at all of them before deciding.
LeonF
Active member
Re: Age
Surprised you thought the GK29 less spacious than the Sigma. I looked at one and thought it cramped for its size. I like the openness of the Sigma cabin and the cockpit. And it sails like a big dinghy. I often sail mine single-handed and I don't consider myself to be a hot shot sailor. When I moved up from my ploddy Fantasie 19 it was a choice between trying to cruise a Hobie Cat or something that performed like a Sigma. I only do club races, usually distance races in the Thames Estuary, otherwise I cruise.
L.A.R.Ferguson
Surprised you thought the GK29 less spacious than the Sigma. I looked at one and thought it cramped for its size. I like the openness of the Sigma cabin and the cockpit. And it sails like a big dinghy. I often sail mine single-handed and I don't consider myself to be a hot shot sailor. When I moved up from my ploddy Fantasie 19 it was a choice between trying to cruise a Hobie Cat or something that performed like a Sigma. I only do club races, usually distance races in the Thames Estuary, otherwise I cruise.
L.A.R.Ferguson
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Perceptions
I have always thought the GK29 to be very spacious for a 29 ft boat when compared with many others. This is partly because of the height of the topsides, which allow a good deal of stowage beneath the deckheads. The accommodation in terms of its volume seemed very similar to the Sigma. We cruised for quite a few years in ours as a family of four plus occasional girlfriends and boyfriends (of the kids, not Jill and me) and were never too cramped.
Our main comments about the Sigma were concerned with the equipment - beds, galley, stowage. All seemed very lightly built, not ergonomically thought out and not well finished. This was a new boat at LBS, perhaps 8 years ago.
No doubts about sailing ability, but the same applies to quite a few others. In the end for us it has always been the other factors that swayed our choice.
I have always thought the GK29 to be very spacious for a 29 ft boat when compared with many others. This is partly because of the height of the topsides, which allow a good deal of stowage beneath the deckheads. The accommodation in terms of its volume seemed very similar to the Sigma. We cruised for quite a few years in ours as a family of four plus occasional girlfriends and boyfriends (of the kids, not Jill and me) and were never too cramped.
Our main comments about the Sigma were concerned with the equipment - beds, galley, stowage. All seemed very lightly built, not ergonomically thought out and not well finished. This was a new boat at LBS, perhaps 8 years ago.
No doubts about sailing ability, but the same applies to quite a few others. In the end for us it has always been the other factors that swayed our choice.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Age
Ah, cruising a Hobie Cat. Yup been there done that. The Contessa definitely has better accommodation, and isn't so prone to somersault (spent hours wringing out my sleeping bag).
Ah, cruising a Hobie Cat. Yup been there done that. The Contessa definitely has better accommodation, and isn't so prone to somersault (spent hours wringing out my sleeping bag).