Contemplating Retirement to Liveaboard

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lancelot

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My wife and I are both 60. We are considering retiring to liveaboard in the UK., however, we would like to spend some time in the Canaries, Spain, Portugal etc.
I assume we would be classed as no fixed abode and I was wondering how one would receive post, taxing a car ( if in UK. ), life insurance, receiving pensions and all the other things that require a permanent address.
Issues about fitting out the boat to cope with the British winters. We are interested in sail, rather then mobo and we do own a 28 foot yacht, presently.
Our intention would be to upgrade to a 36 to 38 foot which would give us more breathing space.
Should we sell the house or rent it?
Roughly, how much income would we need to live fairly comfortably?
There are numerous questions to ask. Are there any excellent books to read in order to answer the majority of our questions? Or perhaps forumites who have already been through our contemplation and would be willing to help with advice?
Our timescale for living aboard is probably 1 to 2 years.
Fair winds,
Lancelot
 
My advice would be to read some of the many posts on this forum asking essentially the same question, and then come back and ask any residual questions. That way you'll spend a bit of time and we may be wiser. Using your preferred route we waste time answering questions that have already been answered and noone is any the wiser.
 
You are right about there being masses of information on the subject - and a wide range of choices of how you go about it. Books, magazine articles, this forum (scroll down a few pages and you will get more than enough leads on where to look), blogs, websites etc.

Simple things first. It will be sensible to keep a permanent presence in the UK as this makes life very much easier in terms of dealing with correspondence, finance, tax, health service etc. Sometimes this can be arranged with the marina where you are living, although as you will discover one of the challenges you face is finding somewhere that you can actually live permanently on board your boat in the UK, and of course if you then start cruising abroad that avenue is not open to you. The most obvious if you decide to sell your house is to use a relative's address. The decision to sell or rent out your house is up to you. Some do, some don't and it really depends on two things - do you need the money and what are you going to do when you stop living on your boat.

As to boat, your size range is typical, but what you actually choose depends on what you consider most important features and of course budget. You can get perfectly adequate 30 year old boats for say, £30k or you could easily spend 10 times that amount on a new boat. There is also a compromise if you intend the boat both for the UK and also hot climates because the requirements, particularly in equipment as well as some aspects of design are different. Very few boats are designed for long term living aboard, so you have to buy something that you can adapt for its new use. This may already be done if you buy a boat somebody has already used for the job, or you have to be prepared to spend time and money refitting the boat.

No definitive amount on living costs. They are in three main cost categories. First personal living - food clothing etc, and on balance this can be very little different from what you would spend in the UK. The second is cost of running the boat and the third is berthing costs. These are hugely variable. Obviously a well maintained boat is cheaper to run than one that requires constant repairs or is full of complex kit. Equally mooring and storage costs vary according to where you are and whether you can anchor or use marinas. In general the Atlantic seaboard and the Western Med up to Italy are more expensive than the Eastern countries and the French canals can be a very economical way of getting south. You will find that many retired couples say they can live on £1000 a month reasonably comfortably, but that amount increases rapidly if you start doing things like eating out frequently, spending time travelling in the country and flying back to UK etc.

Finally a 1-2 year timescale is not really enough to do anything significant - that is more like an extended holiday. You need a year to buy a boat and get it sorted, a year to get somewhere south and warm and a minimum of a year to get back. Unless you go west, sailing is still seasonal, even in the Med. Although you can live comfotably on board in many places there is very little passage making between November and April, so if you want to really see places you should be looking at 4-5 years.

Hope this is enough to get you thinking.
 
Spent two weeks liveaboard in Chichester.Marina life with showers and laundry with drier very handy.A boat that can take the ground on legs or bilge keels handy for mainyence and or cheaper safer use ashore.Good anchouring stuff to benifit from anchourages neat villages without using marinas or laid moorings.Reallygood tender for moter and sail.
 
lancelot said:
Roughly, how much income would we need to live fairly comfortably?
Fair winds,
Lancelot
Click to expand...

Lancelot,

My wife and I are in our 60's and have been circumnavigating for 7 years on an Amel 53 Super Maramu. We are in the Med on a westward circumnavigation which began in the Caribbean.

You can view our full costs, every single cent, at http://svbebe.blogspot.com/p/budget.html

We are in a larger boat and have sailed about 30,000 miles, but since answers to your question will get you a very wide range of costs, I thought I would share ours with you.

Oh, we sold our house, cars, etc.

Hope this helps,

Bill
 
We left dry land and moved on board Rampage (Bavaria 38, 3 cabin layout) 4 summers ago and headed to the Med, where we've been since then. You can see where what we've been up to at the blog address below.

We have an open ended plan - no lets be honest - we have no plan other than to carry on doing what we're doing until we don't like it any more!!

Given our circumstances, we have not sold our UK house but have long term tenants in generating an extra income steam. However, we know other folks who have sold their houses and cut loose completly. It all really depends on what your capital looks like and can you afford to buy and fit out your boat without selling the house.

As to a UK address, then the best thing is to find someone who is willing to provide an accommodation address for you. A relative is best but there are companies out there who will provide the service for a small fee.

There are lots of threads on here on the topic as well as a number of books. There are also blogs in abundance; most of us who write them are only too happy to give our advice and experiences should you feel you need more information.

The most important thing though is to do it. Don't spend years planing and then discover that you dicky knee has finally decided its all too much; do it now!

Fair winds and the best of luck.
 
Speaking from a UK livaboard POV its remarkably easy, all you really need is a boat, a mooring and a heater. Big decision is whether to live on a marina or a mooring, that will drastically affect what boat you require. I would always prefer to be on a mooring as the boat feels more like a boat and you have more privacy, this does have an impact on your power, water and heating requirements. If you opt for a smaller boat you would be better plugged in. If you want any specific advice send me a PM.
 
Thanks to everyone who has offered advice. The responses have given us food for thought and probably a lot more to think about.
When I said timescale, about 1 to 2 years, I was referring to the time needed to prepare and go for it.
Could any one recommend an excellent book on the subject?
Yes, I will scroll through the previous posts.
Regards,
Lancelot
 
I agree with Duncan and Tranona,
I’ve been a liveaboard for over 15 years, and we are now in Galicia. One of the killers for this lifestyle is berthing fees. We have met people who have been charged close to 100euros for a single night in a marina, but even a more modest 20euros will make a big hole in retirement income. The answer is to anchor, which is what we have done, and last year we spent a total of E6.54 on berthing, for a single night on a town quay in Landernau.
The problem is many good anchorages are full of moorings, which means that you either have to go into very shallow water, or anchor off, which means a longer trip in the dinghy and a less comfortable mooring. Many of the best anchorages we have found are half-tidal in tiny creeks, and are absolutely exquisite, but the vast majority of cruising yachts cannot get in because of their draught. (Examples are Niembro, a delightful secluded tidal lake in Northern Spain which is perfectly sheltered, consists of beautiful clean sand, but has 2m of water at high tide, or Ortigueira, a free town quay where we spent five weeks this year.) A shoal draught boat which can take the ground is a really good idea for places like these. (It also makes maintenance such as bottom-scrubbing and replacing anodes much cheaper as you don’t need to pay for haulouts)
Another issue is running cost. The cost of running and maintaining a boat goes up disproportionately with the length. A friend of mine came to re-rig his boat (which is 1.5 times my LOA) and his bill came to ten times what mine had cost. He uses four times as much diesel, and somewhere in the region of 4 times as much antifouling. So don’t fall into the trap of getting the biggest boat you can afford: get the smallest that will do the job well. We chose a Heavenly Twins catamaran which cost less than £20,000, and we live well on a budget of 7,000 euros a year. Have a look at our blog on http://freyafrey.blogspot.com/ and you’ll get some idea of what the life is like.
 
I agree with just about everything that has been said above.
If you can, I really would keep your UK property - the rental income will go towards your living expenses and it is important to keep a foot in the housing market.
I would also maintain a UK address (family or friend)- I know some people manage without but, frankly, our lives would have been incredibly more complicated if we didn´t have someone in the UK fielding our mail.
Although we have no intention to return at the moment, a fall back position in case of disaster is important to us.
Feel free to PM if you have specific questions.
 
>My wife and I are both 60. We are considering retiring to liveaboard in the UK., however, we would like to spend some time in the Canaries, Spain, Portugal etc.

Most marinas won't accept liveaboards and if the council find out what you are doing you will be charged Council tax. The marina we were in were obliged to tell the Council so check before booking a berth.

>I assume we would be classed as no fixed abode and I was wondering how one would receive post, taxing a car ( if in UK. ), life insurance, receiving pensions and all the other things that require a permanent address.

You wouldn't be classed as no abode for tax purposes, it takes four years and you still pay tax on UK income such as rental. We set up a UK holding address, Jane's brother, who forwarded post. Then we wrote to companies we paid money to or received money from and gave them our new address Then we ensured that all payments were taken by direct debit and income transferred directly to our bank. We had no problems with any of that.

>Issues about fitting out the boat to cope with the British winters. We are interested in sail, rather then mobo and we do own a 28 foot yacht, presently. Our intention would be to upgrade to a 36 to 38 foot which would give us more breathing space.

We used a 1.5KW oil radiator and a dehumidifier.

>Should we sell the house or rent it?

I wouldn't sell it the prices are too low and the rental market is growing. Most rentals are six months or longer. One thing to be careful of is if the the house is not your main residence and rented you will pay capital gains tax if you sell it, but not if you live in it for two years after returning. Please check that it may have changed.

>Roughly, how much income would we need to live fairly comfortably?

Thats a piece of string question we were spending about £1,600 per month but then got hit with a big bill for a new generator. Also if you liveaboard 24x365 everything except the rigging and generally electonics will break. Boaty bits are made for weekend summer and two week holiday sailing. Carry spares for everything and a full toolkit. I spent two days a week on maintenance and fixing things that had broken.

By the way, one saying is that cruising plans are made in the sand at low tide. We planned to be away for two years and came back six and a half years later.

Please PM me if you need anything else.
 
KellysEye said:
>My wife and I are both 60. We are considering retiring to liveaboard in the UK., however, we would like to spend some time in the Canaries, Spain, Portugal etc.

Most marinas won't accept liveaboards and if the council find out what you are doing you will be charged Council tax. The marina we were in were obliged to tell the Council so check before booking a berth.

>I assume we would be classed as no fixed abode and I was wondering how one would receive post, taxing a car ( if in UK. ), life insurance, receiving pensions and all the other things that require a permanent address.

You wouldn't be classed as no abode for tax purposes, it takes four years and you still pay tax on UK income such as rental. We set up a UK holding address, Jane's brother, who forwarded post. Then we wrote to companies we paid money to or received money from and gave them our new address Then we ensured that all payments were taken by direct debit and income transferred directly to our bank. We had no problems with any of that.

>Issues about fitting out the boat to cope with the British winters. We are interested in sail, rather then mobo and we do own a 28 foot yacht, presently. Our intention would be to upgrade to a 36 to 38 foot which would give us more breathing space.

We used a 1.5KW oil radiator and a dehumidifier.

>Should we sell the house or rent it?

I wouldn't sell it the prices are too low and the rental market is growing. Most rentals are six months or longer. One thing to be careful of is if the the house is not your main residence and rented you will pay capital gains tax if you sell it, but not if you live in it for two years after returning. Please check that it may have changed.

>Roughly, how much income would we need to live fairly comfortably?

Thats a piece of string question we were spending about £1,600 per month but then got hit with a big bill for a new generator. Also if you liveaboard 24x365 everything except the rigging and generally electonics will break. Boaty bits are made for weekend summer and two week holiday sailing. Carry spares for everything and a full toolkit. I spent two days a week on maintenance and fixing things that had broken.

By the way, one saying is that cruising plans are made in the sand at low tide. We planned to be away for two years and came back six and a half years later.

Please PM me if you need anything else.
Click to expand...

Many thanks for the info.
You have put a great deal into perspective. There were many points I did not realise.
Fair winds,
Lancelot.
 
rtboss1 said:
I really do like your constant level headed postings. I think you are a credit to the forum:)
Click to expand...

Blush Thank you but I have had critics. :)

I spent many years writing documents for Crown Court as an Expert Witness. This is where I learnt the craft of not inventing anything and presenting all sides of an argument if relevant. ;)
 
lenseman said:
Blush Thank you but I have had critics. :)

I spent many years writing documents for Crown Court as an Expert Witness. This is where I learnt the craft of not inventing anything and presenting all sides of an argument if relevant. ;)
Click to expand...

I have a confession.When my extremely sexy, beautiful ,vivacious voluptuous and delightful wife ,LYNNE run away to sea in her Bavaria 55 cruiser with a washing machine and keel!
She started a heated passionate internet affair with that dastardly barstwerd LUDD :). We received an enormous amount of abuse here on line and by PM :(.
I have to confess you kindness help and support got us through those very difficult times.
 
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