Consumer rights and berthing charges

[Quandary]

This is a legal question but too boaty for the lounge
I berth my boat in the Crinan Canal, which also operates as a marina with annual and half yearly charges. A few years ago Scottish Canals employed consultants to review their charges and the conclusion was that while lower than elsewhere they were generally fair taking account of the restricted hours of access(9-5) and the facilities available. Last year with Covid the canal decided not to open to access or movement on Tuesdays and Wednesdays making it the only canal in Europe to operate a five day week. They have now decided that this should be permanent. This can be bloody awkward if weather is bad and you can not get back home, it also means you can not get out on sunny tuesdays or wednesdays.
I have received an invoice for my berth with a threat of a £50 surcharge if not paid promptly, this surcharge is a new feature. While I am prepared to pay I have heard rumours of dissent from other customers and accept their argument that such a substantial reduction in service should be accompanied by a discount, if there is general resistance I would support it.
So what are my rights, can a service provider reduce the service so much without reducing the charge for it?
If I withhold payment until the argument is sorted can they apply their surcharge?

 

[RJJ]

Depends very much on your contractual agreement.

If your contract is rolling indefinitely, it's likely they do have discretion to change the service and the fees. You have the discretion to go elsewhere.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

They can do what they wish at renewal, they can't change during a contract though. You have two options vote with your keel and move or suck it up.

 

[sfellows]

I'm not a lawyer, but this would be subject to Contract Law. If you renew every year then I would guess that they can change the T&Cs once you/they are out of contract. You then choose whether to accept or reject the new contract. They can't force a new contract on you, anymore than you can force them to change their T&Cs.

Of course, rejecting any new T&Cs "imposed" means you don't have a mooring anymore.....

 

[Quandary]

Thanks guys that is what I expected, I am not unhappy to pay though I think they are shooting themselves in the foot as far as developing business is concerned. Transit business is in serious decline and seems to be more affected by this, combined with larger boats, better weather and shore side facilities for those choosing to go round the Mull. Just manning Crinan sea lock as before would be better than complete closure.

 

[Aeolus]

Your only leverage would be if there is a berth-holder association that could try to negotiate on behalf of a large number of you. But, ultimately, they control the canal and can charge what they like.

 

[Quandary]

This is a quango that operates three canal systems, Lowland, Caledonian and Crinan, all have resident boats and the Crinan has a substantial marina at Bellanoch. Only one canal, the Crinan has been reduced to 5 day operation the other two are continuing as normal, with normal charging, it is interesting that berth charges for the Cally with its massive automated locks and 60 miles of water cost less than the 8 miles of the Crinan. As a quasi government concern funded by the taxpayer and catering for motorhomes, caravans, cyclists, walkers and canoes all of which use it free, there surely should be a presumption of fairness rather than the ' we can do it because we can get away with it response'.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

This is a quango that operates three canal systems, Lowland, Caledonian and Crinan, all have resident boats and the Crinan has a substantial marina at Bellanoch. Only one canal, the Crinan has been reduced to 5 day operation the other two are continuing as normal, with normal charging, it is interesting that berth charges for the Cally with its massive automated locks and 60 miles of water cost less than the 8 miles of the Crinan. As a quasi government concern funded by the taxpayer and catering for motorhomes, caravans, cyclists, walkers and canoes all of which use it free, there surely should be a presumption of fairness rather than the ' we can do it because we can get away with it response'.

Take it up with your MSP.

 

[ithet]

So what are my rights, can a service provider reduce the service so much without reducing the charge for it?
If I withhold payment until the argument is sorted can they apply their surcharge?

Where have you been since the 1980's? There is no such thing as a 'service' anymore.

 

[boatiebert]

So what are my rights, can a service provider reduce the service so much without reducing the charge for it? If I withhold payment until the argument is sorted can they apply their surcharge?

So basically they've increased the costs by 28.5% while further inconveniencing consumers on a bureaucratic twist that ignores the reality of life on the sea? What scumbags.

As I've voiced elsewhere on this forum, it's this kind of constant whittling away of access & services, while sneaking up the prices that is going to kill the lifestyle. I'm speaking to more and more individuals who are giving up because of it. I tend to think it's happening because the office-based individuals making the decisions aren't involved in the activity any more and really don't give an s about it any more. Correct me if I am wrong.

If it's a quango operating at a local government-style level, then there's your problem. It sounds like a political/media job rather than a contractual rights. Have you tried to make a story out of it, get local papers, tourist board, local MP on the case. I thought there was still some degree of "keeping things equal" for the Highlands and Islands going on up there.

Bolshi Associations are going to have to be the way forward, I think, but if you try raising that kind of flag here, you'll find a surprising number want to shoot it down.

How does the canal operate now, are all locks manned or just the sea locks? (Sorry, I know of it but not how it works).

Thanks

 

[wully1]

This is a quango that operates three canal systems, Lowland, Caledonian and Crinan, all have resident boats and the Crinan has a substantial marina at Bellanoch. Only one canal, the Crinan has been reduced to 5 day operation the other two are continuing as normal, with normal charging, it is interesting that berth charges for the Cally with its massive automated locks and 60 miles of water cost less than the 8 miles of the Crinan. As a quasi government concern funded by the taxpayer and catering for motorhomes, caravans, cyclists, walkers and canoes all of which use it free, there surely should be a presumption of fairness rather than the ' we can do it because we can get away with it response'.

They should be charging for motorhomes and shed-draggers, £5 a night would pay to keep 7 day opening of the Crinan lock.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Quandary, you have my sympathy. In my opinion pay up and accept it as they are not likely to change their mind soon. I think raising the issue with your MP and any others is worthwhile because of their tax payer funded position. I think something you said a long time ago is still true, they are running the service down with a likely view to shutting it, despite recent works.

If considering other arrangements, I would look sooner rather than later. It appears that places are full up. Good luck with your outcome, I hope it resolves itself.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I've got a berth at Bellanoch booked and will probably still take it up, but two days' missing access a week will be a bit of a pain and gawd knows how many months of no access at all at the Crinan end next winter will be worse. Still, that's only for one year and in a good cause, but a hefty discount would have been a nice idea.

 

[boatiebert]

I think something you said a long time ago is still true, they are running the service down with a likely view to shutting it, despite recent works.

To reduce it to summer months only ... or to privatise it?

That could make it more politically. But also act as a kick in the pants to get some kind of Community interest companies (CIC) cooperative to take it over.

What about screwing with them a little to buy you time to negotiate .... send then a post-dated cheque as payment, less the £50.

Scottish Canals is the landlord, or just the agent? If they are anything like the Canals and River Trust down South they'll be some other commercial machination going on in the background.

 

[wully1]

I've got a berth at Bellanoch booked and will probably still take it up, but two days' missing access a week will be a bit of a pain and gawd knows how many months of no access at all at the Crinan end next winter will be worse. Still, that's only for one year and in a good cause, but a hefty discount would have been a nice idea.

Move into the sea lock basin for the winter months if you want to keep using the boat..

 

[Deleted member 36384]

To reduce it to summer months only ...

I don’t know. There is now a long and consistent history of running down the canal.

 

[Quandary]

Move into the sea lock basin for the winter months if you want to keep using the boat..

Not an option, it is the sea lock and lock 14 that they will be working on, the basin will be drained.
BTW Despite the failure of the decayed swing bar on lock 11 ( it was hitting the ground, had not seen a droop like it since the last time I tried for an erection) they plan to be open tomorrow.

 

[wully1]

Oh well.... I guess the Discovery 65 will need to find another home this winter then...

 

[Never Grumble]

So what are my rights, can a service provider reduce the service so much without reducing the charge for it?
If I withhold payment until the argument is sorted can they apply their surcharge?

Would suggest it depends on the notice period. I'd see it no different than a marina advising of a new rate on the day the rolling contract renews, I'd expect them to give sufficient time for the parties to consider the deal and for the boat owner to walk away if they dont like the new terms (hence comment on notice period).

 

[JumbleDuck]

I've got a berth at Bellanoch booked and will probably still take it up ...

After some thought ... knickers to that. Cancelled.