Consumer Rights Advice Please?

[Goldie]

I have today taken delivery of new upholstery (foam and covers) for my pride and joy, only to find that upon taking it aboard, the fit is awful and there is no way I am prepared to accept it. Ordered more than 4 months ago, the whole thing has been a saga of misfitting and remaking - indeed the forward bunk cushions were remade to new patterns and still don't fit. I won't go into detail, but the saloon cushions fit poorly, in one instance there is a gap of nearly 3" between backrest cushions. We cannot wait indefinitely for a remake (most misfits are more than rectification could cure) as I am shortly to move, with boat, several hundred miles away. The original order (placed Oct 03, deposit paid 8 Nov 03) was for delivery no later than 1 Apr 04. Given the amount of work that would be required, I can see no way that the job could be re-done by then - even if the company agreed to do so. My instinct is to walk away, but I have paid a one third (£600) deposit. What are my rights? The job is clearly to an unacceptable standard, but who is the arbiter of that? If I returned all the cushions, I would be without V-berth and quarterberth cushions as the originals were disposed of by the upholsterers who had used them as a pattern. Any sound advice would be gratefully received.

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[petery]

I'm told by my solicitor daughter that it all depends (fairly obviously) on who took the measurements or made the templates. If the supplier took the measurements and they don't fit, it's down to them as they are not 'fit for purpose'. ..and if you made it clear that 'time was of the essence' of the contract and they miss your latest delivery date then they have broken the contract. That said, a 'good' fit is fairly subjective.

If it isn't fixed by April you could try claiming your deposit back with a county court claim - you can issue it via the web by paying a modest fee through your credit card



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[Goldie]

Thanks Peter, all measurements, templates etc were undertaken by the upholstery company. Basically we just gave them free run of the boat and they took the original cushions away as templates in adition to their own measurements and patterns. 1 Apr 04 was always the deadline and they were told early on that we were moving away. I'm still scratching my head though over what constitues a good fit. To my mind - and that of friends' - the goods supplied let down the boat severely. Thanks again.

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[poter]

I had a similar situation recently, although not to do with the boat but at home, basically it was a carpentry job for a built in bookcase that was crap.

A 20% deposit was paid I took some digital pics (photo evedence is always usefull when building a case) of the job & requested that the bookcase was taken away & repaired/rebuilt. This they did but it was still not acceptable... argument started etc. etc.

finally I got my solicitor to issue a letter along with copies of the pic evidence (cost £75) the company took away the bit of firewood & repaid my deposit.

FIT FOR PURPOSE.... although not a complete catchall, it maybe, in so far as built for purpose items which may be subjective... cushons, bookcase etc.

Take some pics, & tell the supplier that you have done so.
The solicitor was very pleased to have them.

Hope it all resolves itself.

poter.

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by poter on 06/03/2004 08:50 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Peppermint]

Re: Forget Consumer Rights Advice Please?

It's mainly about front. Clearly this is not legal advice it's just a technique that has worked for me on many occasions.

What do the company say? Are they stonewalling ore are you having a dialogue.
What a court or arbitrator would consider is whether the sides are behaving reasonably.

Have you entered into correspondence with them? Documentry evidence is strong. Records of telephone conversations is OK. but just saying I rang a couple of weeks ago carries little weight.

What do you consider to be a satisfactory outcome? Decide whether you want the job fixed, in what time scale or whether you want your money back.

What are you prepared to do to gain satisfaction? When you decide what you want you can decide an approach.

I.E. If your documentary case is sound. You must write to the company. Explain what was ordered. Explain the difference in what was delivered. State clearly what you want to happen and when you want it to happen. Explain what you will do if it doesn't happen.

Clearly you will want your deposit back or the job finishing but you can broaden out the claim.
Points I might add in are "Because of their poor workmanship your boat is uninhabitable or that the amenity value you gain from it is diminished and you will seek compensation for this loss." (estimate a rate based on projected costs) You will seek compensation for letters & phone calls necessitated by pursuing your case" ( Indicate how much you estimate this to be up to now) If your move is delayed you will seek compensation from them based on a daily charge (Work out a rate based on projected costs incured)

Thats the stick. The carrot is that you will hand them the cash the very minute the job is completed satisfactorily.

The letter should finish with something on the lines of.

Please respond within 7 days or legal action will be taken without further reference to you.

Send the letter recorded delivery. If they don't respond phone once to find out why( showing resonableness again) then get down to the court house and sue them for thousands.



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[petery]

Re: Forget Consumer Rights Advice Please?

.. and if they don't settle/reply within the 7 days log on to
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.courtservice.gov.uk/mcol/index.htm>http://www.courtservice.gov.uk/mcol/index.htm</A> where you
can issue a claim in minutes that will be sent by the court within days.

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[Rowana]

And another tip.

Put this at the end somewhere -

". . and I reserve the right to contact the media"

Any decent company does not want adverse publicity from the likes of "Watchdog", or your local paper.

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[scarlett]

And you can get good free advice from a qualified Trading Standards Officer before commiting to another path if you wish.

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[Fill]

It's great going in heavy - small claims court etc, if they have refused to provide proper fitting cushions or given up but refused to return your deposit.

However, many small firms are keen to get it right and will react better if told what is wrong and that as a well respected company you are confident they will wish to keep their reputation by sorting it properly.

Many react well to this - of course if they don't, then go for the jugular.

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[Goldie]

I agree Fill, but unfortunately after so many attempts to get it right over 4 months, I think it's time to call it a day. I can't see any way of making a worthwhile improvement to the existing product so a fresh start would be called for. For that, time is too short. Thanks to all who've replied, but any fresh ideas still welcome. Particularly as regards who decides what constitues satisfactory quality.

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[JPGruntfuttock]

May I suggest that an experienced small boat surveyor, with recognised professional qualifications, is the person to give a professional, disinterested opinion and will provide a writen report.

It may seem a sledge hammer to crack a nut, but in fact it should cost little since
it will be a simple reasoned opinion on the quality, having regard to the age and condition of the boat and suitability for purpose, of a non technical item.

Members of the Institute of Automotive Engineer Assessors do this for vehicles all the time and in my own experience it frequently saves any further dispute, if action is necessary, then the written opinion is a very powerful document in any case you bring and the usually very reasonable fees can be recovered as costs.

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[Goldie]

Mr Gruntfuttock sir, you may indeed suggest a surveyor. Such an eminently sensible suggestion that I'm kicking myself (everybody needs a hobby!) for not thinking of it myself. I am due to meet the upholsterer this week - should be an interesting meeting. I have been down to the boat today and have had a couple of friends drop by (seperately). Without leading the witness I have asked them what they thought of the new upholstery only to be met with embarassed silences.....
Thanks very much for your thoughts.

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[sailorman]

WHO MADE THE PATTERNS IN THE FIRST PLACE ??????

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[rich]

sailorman, go back to reply number Two.............it's all there.

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[JPGruntfuttock]

You are welcome indeed, good luck with the meeting!

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[Goldie]

Re: Result:

Thanks to all who added their suggestions to the pot. Further info was gleaned from the Citizens' Advice Bureau website and a very helpful lady at the RYA legal department. A visit to the boat persuaded the company owner that the work, even that which was a second attempt, was below acceptable standard and there was little surprise evident when I said that I was rejecting the lot and that I wanted my money back. The initial response was that I would have to pay for the materials, (which were bought in specially); but for-warned was for-armed and I was able to quote that I was not liable for this and was within my rights to reject and demand a refund. My advice was that I was not obliged to accept modification or even replacement goods. There were no raised voices, no bad language and the whole thing was remarkably amicable - perhaps they saw it coming? I now await arrival of the cheque..... As the original v-berth and quarterberth cushions were destroyed by the patternmakers (contracted out I now find), we are negotiating to purchase the rejected replacements at cost price as a stop gap. Next thing is to find a better upholsterer!

Anyway, the exercise proves the value of doing your homework as to your rights and having the answers ready. My sincere thanks to those whose ideas contributed to my success in achieving the desired result.

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[Rowana]

Re: Result:

Good for you - BUT - I'd wait until the said cheque had safely cleared into my bank before I drew a line under the sad episode.


I don't know who the company was, but I have heard good reports from this lot. Only second-hand info I'm afraid, no actual knowledge -
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.hawkehouse.com/>http://www.hawkehouse.com/</A>


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