Considering a Cat

[cueball]

Hi, having had both... seasickness aboard a cat is much improved as when you are inside you still have almost a panoramic view out, unlike in the mono which you are very much down inside with little visibility out.

 

[Mikedefieslife]

Well the Prouts sold over 2000 boats and were the largest catamaran manufacturer for some time. They seem to be very popular over here (Greece) there were six in the bay I'm anchored in.

To get two doubles though you'd a 37 Elite, or Event 34. Both are pricey at around £65k and for that money there are better boats about.

I have an old 35, that sails well enough, but going windward is at 60 degrees where I'll get about 7knts in 18-20knts of wind. On the beam or slightly aft it would be 8.5 or so in similar conditions.

Going windward in short steep med waves is violent enough to try to rip fittings of the walls, so not recommended. All other points of sale are a dream though.

I don't think Prouts use there space well compared to the small Heavenly Twins 27 (too small for a family). They are practically a centre cockpit boat but rather than more space below all you get a large rear deck.

Something like a Commanche 32 would be faster, not much more expensive if at all, and more comfortable going into the wind (slightly higher bridge-deck), but you'd lose the double berths (kind of) The Appache 40 is a basically just a larger version.

 

[SiteSurfer]

I think she would be ok with a 'made-up' double in the saloon for the odd occasion we might have guests, the girls (12 / 22) would want their own berths (which could be singles I guess).
We looked at the Heavenly Twins, but they just look dated (even more than the Catalac and Prout) with the bows, however I am reading great things about them.

 

[stephen_h]

Have a look at the Woods Sagitta.

These will sail very well.

You need to get on as many different boats as possible. Try Multihull World in West Sussex since they normally have a good selection you can go on.

 

[Boathook]

Have a look at the Woods Sagitta.

These will sail very well.

You need to get on as many different boats as possible. Try Multihull World in West Sussex since they normally have a good selection you can go on.

Another for Multihull World at Thornham Marina. They seem to have a 28ft Summer Twins and a Heavenly Twins 27 both with 2 double cabins according to the spec.
http://www.multihullworld.co.uk/

I agree that the wheelhouse on the 9m Catalac could be better looking but it is very practical and keeps you dry unless the wind is from astern.

 

[Scillypete]

I am interested in a couple things which have arisen from my semi-regular trips out into the Solent this last year.

1) The Sonic drive gubbins on the older Prouts, good - bad or still ok to maintain?
2) The wife is keen on 2 x double berths in the hulls, or at least the ability to sleep 2 x couples, research puts me at least 28ft to fit that in - about right?
3) Has anyone replaced the doghouse with a nice spray hood on the Catalac (I have to say it's not aesthetically pleasing) or seen one with it replaced, curious.
4) Assuming a 30ft boat, its safe to assume we can carry as much kit on a cat of similar length? Weight distribution becomes (even more) important though.

Finally - speed. The other boat we are considering is a Sigma 36c, mainly as its a compromise. However, it's very hard to get away from the allure of the space within a cat and reading the comments above - I think if I can get 5 knots SOG (average) then I'd be delirously happy.

I suppose the only thing that concerns me now is that we see so few of them around, I guess that's due to the ratio of monohulls to multihulls in the particular area I sail.
I'm not scared of a bit of work, so we are looking around for something that's solid but need a freshen up - that should keep me occupied for a few months.

The sonic drive on the Prout cats is a fairly agricultural piece of engineering, maintenance regularly is the key to keeping it moving and keeping grief at bay. There is a real mix of metals and they just love the salty environment so they can corrode together, but keep everything well greased and oiled through each season and take things apart at least every couple of years and it should last.

Our 33 has two theoretical double quarter berths, cosy but ideal for youthful couples I would say, alternatively a very large single.

Speed, as you are feeling the need, I always passage plan for a 5 knot average, quite often do better which is a gamble if aiming for a tidal gate but arriving early is always better than late. Don't overload it as it will kill any kind of performance, the temptation to fill all that stowage space with useful stuff is to be resisted, I only use one water tank and rarely have it full unless cruising and unlikely to be near a tap for a while.

Main difference between sigma 36 and any of the cats is the ability to creep into the better anchorages in a cat and take the bottom as and whenever you like. It is an advantage that is not to be overlooked.

There are plenty around perhaps not around the Solent, apart from multihull world at thornham try the multihull centre at millbrook in Cornwall both usually have several that fall within your requirements on their books.

 

[geem]

The sonic drive on the Prout cats is a fairly agricultural piece of engineering, maintenance regularly is the key to keeping it moving and keeping grief at bay. There is a real mix of metals and they just love the salty environment so they can corrode together, but keep everything well greased and oiled through each season and take things apart at least every couple of years and it should last.
L
Our 33 has two theoretical double quarter berths, cosy but ideal for youthful couples I would say, alternatively a very large single.

Speed, as you are feeling the need, I always passage plan for a 5 knot average, quite often do better which is a gamble if aiming for a tidal gate but arriving early is always better than late. Don't overload it as it will kill any kind of performance, the temptation to fill all that stowage space with useful stuff is to be resisted, I only use one water tank and rarely have it full unless cruising and unlikely to be near a tap for a while.

Main difference between sigma 36 and any of the cats is the ability to creep into the better anchorages in a cat and take the bottom as and whenever you like. It is an advantage that is not to be overlooked.

There are plenty around perhaps not around the Solent, apart from multihull world at thornham try the multihull centre at millbrook in Cornwall both usually have several that fall within your requirements on their books.

All good advice but I will add my bit. We had a Prout Snowgoose 37. She had an extra tall rig and trick sails. We kept her very light. We carried very little onboard even though we did an Atlantic circuit in her. We would passage plan on 6-7 knots and easily achieve that. She would go suprisingly well to windward albeit slamming all the way. Our fastest 50+ mile run where tides went left to right and didnt add to the boat speed was 9kt average. We never saw another Prout Snowgoose 37 as light as ours. We replaced all loose ply locker lids, doors, table with foam core. We saved about 300kg weight. On a boat that weighed 5t in cruising trim this was a noticable performance benefit.
The Prout Snowgoose is potentially a lot faster than thr Elite due to narrower hulls and less weight. Whe we have sailed in company we pointed higher and were faster but this could have been down to the mast being 8' longer than standard and better sails.

 

[KellysEye]

Prout Cats have good reputation and have been used for long distance sailing. There are two issues marina costs are high because of the width and you won't get a cat for £20k the cheapest one I have found is here at £22k http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boats.phtml?id=64 the question is it big enough. Most cats are £35k to a lot more.

 

[Mikedefieslife]

The price ceiling for a 31/33 is probably £35k, you could pay £10-15k less have to do a ton of work in fixing and modernising. The Snowgoose 35 isn't much more, a pristine one might be £45k but I've not seen any (including mine). £35k is more like it with work needed. Now when you get to 37 Elites. The ceiling is more like £80k with ones needing modernising at more like £50-60k.

Still none of these hole their value like the Catalac 10m and 12m, which while might not sail as well, has a ton of extra space. That being said It would be pointless ever buying one, as their prices verge on that of faster more modern catamarans.

Even the small HT27 is around £30-35k for a good one. The mark 3 26s though can be bought for as little £15k though.

 

[SiteSurfer]

I've been doing steady research on the prices and concur that my budget would do one of 2 things - get me a semi-reasonable monohull or an older shorter cat, both of which may require some work to get back to where i'd like them. That's not such a huge deal either way.

I am hearing an awful lot of windward sailing stories, or lack of. Given that I mainly sail in the Solent and have pretty conservative expectations of where I might find myself in the next 5 years - I do worry a bit that (given the prevailing winds) I'll be motor sailing one way or another from/to my destination every trip. The inner sailor is cringing at that. The inner caravanner is loving it.

We are off to look at some in the next couple weeks, I'm prepared to be a little disappointed in my expectations of what is considered a reasonable state for boats of my budget. The jury is still out - I expect however that the family will have the last word and in order to persuade them to go sailing with me - I may have to compromise.

 

[Scillypete]

I've been doing steady research on the prices and concur that my budget would do one of 2 things - get me a semi-reasonable monohull or an older shorter cat, both of which may require some work to get back to where i'd like them. That's not such a huge deal either way.

I am hearing an awful lot of windward sailing stories, or lack of. Given that I mainly sail in the Solent and have pretty conservative expectations of where I might find myself in the next 5 years - I do worry a bit that (given the prevailing winds) I'll be motor sailing one way or another from/to my destination every trip. The inner sailor is cringing at that. The inner caravanner is loving it.

We are off to look at some in the next couple weeks, I'm prepared to be a little disappointed in my expectations of what is considered a reasonable state for boats of my budget. The jury is still out - I expect however that the family will have the last word and in order to persuade them to go sailing with me - I may have to compromise.

My Prout sails to windward just not as close as you will get from some of the mono's, she will sail as close as twin/bilge keelers and usually a lot quicker (8 knots on the log beating to windward last Sunday) so although because of the extra angle you will cover more ground it is generally at a reasonable speed. I don't often motorsail unless its very light airs and mostly only use the engine for entering or leaving harbour.

All boats are a compromise and with the added mix of family input the compromises can be many. I do not regret choosing catamarans over mono's as my wife loves it and will sail with me which she won't do on a mono anymore now she has been spoilt.

Good luck with the hunt for the right boat.

 

[fergie_mac66]

The secret of happy married cruising in a cat , is, go where the wind takes you and try to avoid long close windward legs. Be prepared to go somewhere other than you plan from last week.I woulds sooner have a happy family trip that a lonesome wet thrash to wind.

 

[SiteSurfer]

Back from 2 and a half weeks in the 29ft mono and having now seen a few cats in marinas (there are loads in Ryde!) - we think we are convinced.
Had some lovely chats to a few skippers of ones in our budget and all seemed to echo the posts above.

I wonder though - I see that again and again the question of 'overloading' comes up. Coming from a dinghy background where weight was discouraged, and understanding the principles of why that would make a difference, I'm intruiged by the definition of what you folks would consider 'too much stuff'.

For instance, I can't see us needing more than has been added to my mono currently - such as calorifier, life raft, extra anchor for kedge, 240V circuit, couple of SUPS, dinghy etc. We always take just enough clothes for the cruising we do and tend to stock up with food every few days (theres not a huge amount of space on the mono). I have a 120 litre water tank which gets us happily through 3 or 4 days (no shower allthough I'd love one) and no generator or water maker type stuff.

We normally take 4 people max and potter around in the Solent or (hopefully) nearish West Country. I'm used to passage planning at 3-4 knots.

What extra's do people then add that would contribute negatively to the weight to the degree that sailing is affected badly? Easier to learn the lesson now than later I think.

 

[RichardS]

I would forget about this "over-loading" stuff. Our cat has tanks for 400L of fuel and 800L of water, which is a phenomenal load of well over a ton ...... but which makes no discernible difference to her height in the water because that's what she is designed for.

She is also designed to carry 10 people plus all their luggage whereas we usually have 3 or 4 on board. Work out the weight of those missing 6 or 7 people and their stuff and you can see why, even when we are all aboard, there is still no visible change in height. In fact, the tip of our bow is just above the water unless we get really loaded up.

Unless you intend to race your boat, I reckon you could carry 50% more than a same length monohull on a cruising cat without even noticing the difference.

The problem for the monohull is that it's already encumbered by several tons of metal underneath it so there not much latitude left up top. :encouragement:

Richard

 

[SiteSurfer]

Unless you intend to race your boat, I reckon you could carry 50% more than a same length monohull on a cruising cat without even noticing the difference.

Zero intention now or in the future of racing.
So the addition of something like a small suitcase generator wouldn't make that much difference then.

Have started looking in ernest, am looking at HT, ST, Catalacs and Prouts - all of which with a view to doing some tidying myself and updating where required - hence why the question about adding 'modern' stuff like the hot water systems, blown air heating and so forth.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

My two (Euro) cents.
First of all, cats of that vintage had a length to beam ratio (of the boat, not the hulls) that was very low by today's standards. My brother had the plug that had been used for the original Snowgoose and it was very heavily built with semi-circular underwater sections in cold-moulded ply and the sides in 3/4" marine ply. Heavy stuff. From memory she was 37' LOA with beam of 16'. A modern cat of equivalent length would have a beam that is more like 30' at least. This gives more form stability. Once, on a passage from Malta to Sicily I managed to fly a hull 'Just to see if I could do it' before we reduced sail. I had instructed my brother to keep his eyes astern and to yell when we had only one wake instead of two!
One of the major differences is the motion and this is totally different from monos, especially in short steep seas like we have in the Med. Some people have described it as a 'bobble' while others compared it to driving a Land Rover at speed across a freshly ploughed field! My description was more inspired by the name of Arthur Piver's trimaran "Startled Faun" if you can imagine that animal's motion.
Modern cats are lighter weight for the same LOA and should still not be overloaded. (It was probably was the reason why Piver's boat was lost).
Going fast with a following sea requires care because cats can trip (pitch-pole) on the wave in front before the bows have time to ride over the crest. I know of one cat that suffered this fate on a passage from Malta en-route to the Eastern Med (Cyprus?). The answer is to slow the boat before things go hairy.
I love multis although I would probably go for a Tri instead of a Cat. Back in the sixties my friend and I were even experimenting with crude foils. In this old photo the 'foils' are hinged up in the raised position. I'm the skinny young man with dark glasses!

So why don't I have a Multi? The main reason is the cost of marinas in Malta. If you are still considering a cat, I suggest that the place to visit would be France because they are the experts in Europe, although most of the boats would be modern 'racing machines'. Multi-owners tend to be enthusiastic about their boats and most of them would gladly share their experiences.
Happy hunting and very best wishes for your quest!

 

[SiteSurfer]

Funnily enough I this afternoon expanded my search to close continental and came across several "vintage" cats right up my street - 3 of them in Holland.

For the foreseeable future, I have no illusions of what we intend to do, possibly one day going to Cherbourg or the Channel Islands or if we ever got enough time off work - maybe to Scilly Petes neck of the woods - but mainly its hoofing up and down the Solent - Poole and occasionally Lyme Bay.

That's why we think we would be ok with the older boats, not just budget but the limitations of practicality in a positive sense!

 

[William_H]

T he most important thing with sailing cats is that you must decide when to shorten sail and slow down. Becuase the boat will just seem to go better and better until disaster. Unlike a lead mine which will tell you very clearly when wind is too strong. However for the OP the best first thing to try with daughter is to have her do the helming. Best solution to sea sickness for me. ol'will

 

[rib]

See first post ?

 

[Tomahawk]

Life is easy