Connecting anchor warp to chain

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iLens

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I've got 30' of chain and an electric anchor windlass and that's fine most of the time. If I need more scope, I need to add a warp, but what's the best/safe way to attach it when the anchor is already down?

In case anyone comes across this thread - as pointed out in later posts, I meant 30 metres, not feet!
 
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30' of chain isn't much, particularly if (as your post suggests) there is nothing more behind that. Consider permanently adding at least 30m of octoplait rode using a rope to chain splice. There are various tutorials on line showing how to do this and various types of splice you can use. Personally I prefer a back splice secured to the last link of the chain. Provided your windlass has a rope/chain combination gypsy, that splice (if done correctly) should pass through without difficulty.
 
iLens said:
I've got 30' of chain and an electric anchor windlass and that's fine most of the time. If I need more scope, I need to add a warp, but what's the best/safe way to attach it when the anchor is already down?
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As already said, it is best if the line is always attached to the end of the chain with the other end attached to the boat. If your gypsy is a chain only one then you can splice or shackle it on with an eye splice as you are going to have to take it off the winch anyway and your only consideration is what will pass over your bow-roller - this will also work if you really only want to add the line when required.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
 
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What size boat? And where do you expect to anchor?
Most boats big enough to have an electric windlass would benefit from at least 50m of matching chain to get most value from the windlass. And the sooner you buy it the longer the benefit from the extra chain.
(And whenever thinking of buying chain add another 10% then another couple of metres for luck - so 57m for starters :-)
 
dunedin said:
What size boat? And where do you expect to anchor?
Most boats big enough to have an electric windlass would benefit from at least 50m of matching chain to get most value from the windlass. And the sooner you buy it the longer the benefit from the extra chain.
(And whenever thinking of buying chain add another 10% then another couple of metres for luck - so 57m for starters :-)
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Do remember the additional weight in the bow with a lot of chain? Your boat size and anchoring habits will dictate what you need. We use all chain and just 50m (10mm chain , 8.5tonne boat) and it has served well all over the west coast (+Ireland,Norway,Sweden,Denmark..). Works fine for most anchorages we have tried to use. Some people keep 80-100m on board bigger heavier boats, with heavier anchors. It's down to personal preference, attitude and pockets!
 
10mm chain on a 8.5t yacht is unnecessary and 50m of it will weigh at least 50kg too much. For abrasion resistance 6mm will be adequate and if you worry about the absence off catenary then use a decent snubber. A correctly sized snubber of about 10m length will have the same effect as 30m of correctly sized chain.

I would agree - buy more chain.

Its all in the December issue of Sailing Today.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
10mm chain on a 8.5t yacht is unnecessary and 50m of it will weigh at least 50kg too much. For abrasion resistance 6mm will be adequate and if you worry about the absence off catenary then use a decent snubber. A correctly sized snubber of about 10m length will have the same effect as 30m of correctly sized chain.

I would agree - buy more chain.

Its all in the December issue of Sailing Today.

Jonathan
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We're alright, catenary still works well in the Northern Hemisphere, but not if you use lavvy chain. :D
 
The price of catenary is weight in the bow.

In this case it is similar to carrying a sylph like young lady permanently on the bow, looks lovely - does little for sailing performance. I'd prefer that specific weight back in the cockpit.

But there again yachts spend most of their time at anchor, in a marina or motoring - so I have the wrong priorities.

Jonathan
 
And catenary doesn't work any hemisphere (unless it's ship sized) above light to moderate wind strength but that's been endlessly explained in other threads. Catenary gives shock absorption until the wind strengthens then is so minimal it doesn't do anything. But people swear by it - usually those who sail in waters where snorkelling to see what is happening is impractical.
 
I don't think there are any sylph like young ladies lurking up forward. :D
But, we have a black tank up forward, which is never used, but last winter, while doing some diverter valve maintenance, I found that the b..... tank was sitting full of ( clean) sea water. (I thought there was something funny about those valves).:confused: The weight in that is probably greater than the difference between our adequate chain, and your preferred size.
 
Sorry if I have related this anecdote already.

Friend keeps his garbage in poly bags in the anchor locker, which also houses the chain. He completed a hard beat to windward to get home but thought the yacht was performing poorly. On arriving home he found the boat a bit bow down. On investigation he identified that an errant tea bag had blocked the drain in the anchor locker - which, the locker, was full of, sea, water. I'm guessing - and weighing a bit more than my sylph

Its odd - cockpit drains are pretty monstrous (and rightly so), but adequate. Bow locker, anchor/chain lockers, have really parsimonious drainage.

Jonathan
 
NormanS said:
The weight in that is probably greater than the difference between our adequate chain, and your preferred size.
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They often say that 'English' is a living language and I obviously have been away far too long.

I must remember that 'preferred' can also mean 'more than adequate' :) Unusual development.


Rupert - I'm with you, on a number of counts.

Jonathan
 
On a more serious note:

Weight in the bow, whether a couple of sylphs or 100m of 10mm rather than 100m of 8mm, will have much less impact, if noticeable at all, on a traditional, heavy displacement, long keeled yacht. Most of us now buy, through choice (or because that is what is economically viable (and is all that is offered) are yachts that we affectionately term AWBs. I know this is the case - as they adorn every marina and every mooring field. Today's AWBs and for the last couple of decades (or more) have every ounce (or gram) of excess weight squeezed out of them - and weight in the bow can affect sailing performance. This is even more of an issue with catamarans.

So keeping chain weight down to maximise performance simply does not matter for some and is of importance to others, but not all, who sail AWBs - fortunately we have a choice and equally fortunately we all make different choices.

There are enough using lightweight chain to suggest it is, actually, quite acceptable.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
On a more serious note:

Weight in the bow, whether a couple of sylphs or 100m of 10mm rather than 100m of 8mm, will have much less impact, if noticeable at all, on a traditional, heavy displacement, long keeled yacht. Most of us now buy, through choice (or because that is what is economically viable (and is all that is offered) are yachts that we affectionately term AWBs. I know this is the case - as they adorn every marina and every mooring field. Today's AWBs and for the last couple of decades (or more) have every ounce (or gram) of excess weight squeezed out of them - and weight in the bow can affect sailing performance. This is even more of an issue with catamarans.

So keeping chain weight down to maximise performance simply does not matter for some and is of importance to others, but not all, who sail AWBs - fortunately we have a choice and equally fortunately we all make different choices.

There are enough using lightweight chain to suggest it is, actually, quite acceptable.

Jonathan
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I quite agree. I think we've both been saying this for quite some time.
With my relatively heavy displacement boat, a couple of sylphs wouldn't make a lot of difference (to the sailing performance). :D
 
There's something very wrong going on here!

Forumeers exchanging contrary ideas and rationale.... then finding agreement with each others' perspectives? Gosh!

Is it the 'effect of the supermoon', or is there something in the water...?
 
dunedin said:
What size boat? And where do you expect to anchor?
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It's a 34' AWB, 9.5t and I'll be in Scotland, so you can all start arguing again!
(I'm a bit worried about the extra weight in the bow if I go for another 20m+ of chain rather than 30m of anchor plat that can be used as a towrope in extremis (mine or someone else's!)
 
iLens said:
It's a 34' AWB, 9.5t and I'll be in Scotland, so you can all start arguing again!
(I'm a bit worried about the extra weight in the bow if I go for another 20m+ of chain rather than 30m of anchor plat that can be used as a towrope in extremis (mine or someone else's!)
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For Scotland I would definitely go for a longer all chain setup. We often use the anchor windlass twice a day, and wouldn’t want to be phaffing with the rope chain joint. And when the forecast is for a bit of a breeze, and nearest marina 70miles away, you never wish for less chain in the locker.
The bit about extra weight in the bow certainly matters for circuit racers, but not sure noticeable in practice in my experience. We are perhaps extreme with nearly 90m of chain in the bow, plus a spare Rocna. But haven’t noticed any difference compared to 50m and single anchor. Plus not many cruising boats of similar size have ever passed us upwind, so we don’t hang about!
Suspect an in mast mainsail furler on an AWB will have more adverse impact on polar inertia and speed (plus heel angle) than the anchor chain.
 
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