Confused...

[Suffolk_Newbie]

Hi all,

As my handle suggests, I'm a newbie to the forum and also to serious motor boating.

Having rented boats on the UK inland waterways for many years with the family and now being an 'empty-nester', I felt that it was time to step up a hobby that I've always hankered after and get into boat ownership. I'm imminently taking the PB2 and have PB Intermediate also booked, with an intention to also undertake RYA Day skipper theory course and PB Advanced.

I'm planning to buy a MoBo within the next 12 months (hopefully sooner, rather than later), with a budget of up to £170K in the 32' - 38' length, allowing my wife and I space for many weekends and several weeks a year onboard, but also for the grown up children to join us regularly. We would aim to keep it on the Norfolk Broads but with sea trips out of G.Yarmouth or Lowestoft for coastal and potentially, in the future, trips to France / The Netherlands.

The reason for the title of this thread is that, over the past few months of reading current and older threads on this forum, I seem to have become more confused than elucidated over a couple of things and hope that this erudite group might be able to give me their opinion on them:

1. Shafts are much better than Stern / Outdrives due to servicing costs and reliability?
2. A single engine might actually be a better option than a twin engine for my plans, as the perceived 'safety' of a second engine at sea is minimal if servicing is done well?

I'd also really appreciate any tips on boat options that fit my requirements.

Sorry for the length of the post but I wanted to provide enough information for you to form your opinions.

 

[Greg2]

I have been doing the boating you intend to do in the same area for quite a while and we have had a variety of boat types ranging from 32‘ to 41’ in length. All have been twins with three on shafts and three on outdrives with both planing and semi-displacement hulls.

Your budget is fairly healthy so you will have a reasonable choice of boats and I think you might want to think about the type of boat you want i.e. flybridge, sports cruiser, trawler etc before you start thinking about number of engines or propulsion systems. Looking at different boats will help you get an idea about what you like and you will see why certain boats tend to have particular engine and drive systems e.g. sportscruisers often have outdrives for performance and creating living space.

In reality there aren’t many options for single engined boats - it would have been our preference the last time we changed but aside from Dutch steel boats (which will only go slowly at sea being full displacement hulls) there was little that met our other requirements so we stuck with twins. This actually provides some benefits such as better handling at close quarters and redundancy assuming there are separate fuel tanks (most problems are fuel related).

The shafts versus outdrives debate regularly rears it’s head on here so I won’t go there other than to say my preference is shafts but we would have outdrives if they are what the type of boat we want comes with.

For combined inland and coastal cruising the ideal is good side decks for doing fenders and lines and a turn of speed when you want it. Broom boats (based in Brundall) used to build boats for this very purpose (EU inland waterways and coastal passages) and with aft cabins, raised helm positions, good side decks and semi-displacement hulls they take some beating (we have owned two). Broom no longer build boats but another local company is Haines, who have similar boats in their line-up.

You could do a lot worse than dropping in to Norfolk Yacht Agency in Brundall and speaking to one of the Brokers (Matt is the senior broker) - they tend to have a good range and they have been doing exactly what you want to do for many years. They have a cruising club so getting your first sea cruises under your belt in company with others (including a lead boat and engineer) is a good way to build experience.. To be transparent we have bought two boats from them and been on several of their cruises in company.

Lots to think about but trawling brokerages is half the fun!
.

 

[ChromeDome]

Good advice!

With a healthy budget, you may want to aim for a newer rather than bigger boat.

 

[Suffolk_Newbie]

I have been doing the boating you intend to do in the same area for quite a while and we have had a variety of boat types ranging from 32‘ to 41’ in length. All have been twins with three on shafts and three on outdrives with both planing and semi-displacement hulls.

Your budget is fairly healthy so you will have a reasonable choice of boats and I think you might want to think about the type of boat you want i.e. flybridge, sports cruiser, trawler etc before you start thinking about number of engines or propulsion systems. Looking at different boats will help you get an idea about what you like and you will see why certain boats tend to have particular engine and drive systems e.g. sportscruisers often have outdrives for performance and creating living space.

In reality there aren’t many options for single engined boats - it would have been our preference the last time we changed but aside from Dutch steel boats (which will only go slowly at sea being full displacement hulls) there was little that met our other requirements so we stuck with twins. This actually provides some benefits such as better handling at close quarters and redundancy assuming there are separate fuel tanks (most problems are fuel related).

The shafts versus outdrives debate regularly rears it’s head on here so I won’t go there other than to say my preference is shafts but we would have outdrives if they are what the type of boat we want comes with.

For combined inland and coastal cruising the ideal is good side decks for doing fenders and lines and a turn of speed when you want it. Broom boats (based in Brundall) used to build boats for this very purpose (EU inland waterways and coastal passages) and with aft cabins, raised helm positions, good side decks and semi-displacement hulls they take some beating (we have owned two). Broom no longer build boats but another local company is Haines, who have similar boats in their line-up.

You could do a lot worse than dropping in to Norfolk Yacht Agency in Brundall and speaking to one of the Brokers (Matt is the senior broker) - they tend to have a good range and they have been doing exactly what you want to do for many years. They have a cruising club so getting your first sea cruises under your belt in company with others (including a lead boat and engineer) is a good way to build experience.. To be transparent we have bought two boats from them and been on several of their cruises in company.

Lots to think about but trawling brokerages is half the fun!
.

Thank you Greg2, all of that makes a lot of sense. I've discounted the trawler type as, although I like them, my Wife isn't keen on them. I'm thinking Sports cruiser from an air draft perspective but wouldn't be against a flybridge, as I plan to be on the southern broads and so bridges are less of an issue.

Broom and Haines are both great options that I've looked at, but both seem a challenge to find in my budget 'sweet spot', for the former due to their having stopped producing and for the latter I can only presume because of the low volume and the fact that people are reluctant to sell what are fantastic boats. The lottery win would certainly be a brand new Haines 36 offshore .

I did see this second hand Haines: 2017 Haines 32 offshore, Chichester Marina United Kingdom - boats.com but it's over budget and I'm a little too early in my search to commit to such a huge investment too quickly (understanding that this might be the proverbial rocking horse manure).

I'll take your advice on NYA; I've walked around their boat moorings a couple of times but not gone into the office and so I'll go and have a discussion with them next time I'm up there, and the idea of being able to go to sea with an experienced group for the first time sounds fantastic!

Thanks again, I'll certainly enjoy the brokerage trawl

 

[Suffolk_Newbie]

Good advice!

With a healthy budget, you may want to aim for a newer rather than bigger boat.

Thanks ChromeDome, I was thinking that, more towards the 32' but newer might be the best approach. Most of the time it'll be just my wife and I and the children are still young enough to enjoy less luxury for the second berth .

It'll probably help from a handling perspective for a newbie!

 

[NBs]

Hi,

Experience on many boats and decided to think single screw, equipped with keel protection, Ambassador rope cutter gives good protection against several problems if you have bad luck.

In the sea, you can find ropes, nets, agricultural fabrics, branches or submerged tree trunks drifting under the surface.

The single screw is pretty well protected by the keel. There are also twin boats that have thought to protect the axles and propellers with a keel, but less common.

If the twins have separated their own fuel lines, then I see a safety win for twins vs single, because fuel is the most common reason why a diesel would fail when running.

Every long-distance boater is prepared in advance for fuel problems by already having a fuel line in the system douple filters (racor turbine) and several spare filters in stock, so the risk is very small.

Maintenance is important in both single-twins, also checks in the engine room, before the trip it is wise to avoid problems at sea.

I have found a semi-displacement hull boat to be a good compromise for my own needs when traveling on boats for long distances in a season. In the archipelago, on the coast, in the open sea and inland.

A boat is always a compromise when it comes to things, so you only need to look to find yours. Thoughts, Nimbus, Beneteau swift Trawler 34, Aquastar, Nelsson etc.

And Nordic tug, it is very seakeaping SD hull boats.

1995 Nordic Tugs 32 for sale. View price, photos and Buy 1995 Nordic Tugs 32 #388777

NBs

 

[Sunny265]

Hi all,

As my handle suggests, I'm a newbie to the forum and also to serious motor boating.

Having rented boats on the UK inland waterways for many years with the family and now being an 'empty-nester', I felt that it was time to step up a hobby that I've always hankered after and get into boat ownership. I'm imminently taking the PB2 and have PB Intermediate also booked, with an intention to also undertake RYA Day skipper theory course and PB Advanced.

I'm planning to buy a MoBo within the next 12 months (hopefully sooner, rather than later), with a budget of up to £170K in the 32' - 38' length, allowing my wife and I space for many weekends and several weeks a year onboard, but also for the grown up children to join us regularly. We would aim to keep it on the Norfolk Broads but with sea trips out of G.Yarmouth or Lowestoft for coastal and potentially, in the future, trips to France / The Netherlands.

The reason for the title of this thread is that, over the past few months of reading current and older threads on this forum, I seem to have become more confused than elucidated over a couple of things and hope that this erudite group might be able to give me their opinion on them:

1. Shafts are much better than Stern / Outdrives due to servicing costs and reliability?
2. A single engine might actually be a better option than a twin engine for my plans, as the perceived 'safety' of a second engine at sea is minimal if servicing is done well?

I'd also really appreciate any tips on boat options that fit my requirements.

Sorry for the length of the post but I wanted to provide enough information for you to form your opinions.

Something like this might be a good compromise?
Decent size for a newbie to boat, flybridge single diesel engine (Yanmar) shaft drive. Cracking boat and under £100k
Viki 32 8354174 – Burton Waters Boat Sales

 

[Suffolk_Newbie]

Hi,

Experience on many boats and decided to think single screw, equipped with keel protection, Ambassador rope cutter gives good protection against several problems if you have bad luck.

In the sea, you can find ropes, nets, agricultural fabrics, branches or submerged tree trunks drifting under the surface.

The single screw is pretty well protected by the keel. There are also twin boats that have thought to protect the axles and propellers with a keel, but less common.

If the twins have separated their own fuel lines, then I see a safety win for twins vs single, because fuel is the most common reason why a diesel would fail when running.

Every long-distance boater is prepared in advance for fuel problems by already having a fuel line in the system douple filters (racor turbine) and several spare filters in stock, so the risk is very small.

Maintenance is important in both single-twins, also checks in the engine room, before the trip it is wise to avoid problems at sea.

I have found a semi-displacement hull boat to be a good compromise for my own needs when traveling on boats for long distances in a season. In the archipelago, on the coast, in the open sea and inland.

A boat is always a compromise when it comes to things, so you only need to look to find yours. Thoughts, Nimbus, Beneteau swift Trawler 34, Aquastar, Nelsson etc.

And Nordic tug, it is very seakeaping SD hull boats.

1995 Nordic Tugs 32 for sale. View price, photos and Buy 1995 Nordic Tugs 32 #388777

NBs

Thank you NB,

It's great to get experienced opinion and those are great tips about the debris protection and being well prepared for fuel issues.

A semi-displacement hull does seem like a good option for river, estuary and sea use and I recognise that there will always be a compromise in choosing the right boat for us.

I like the options that you've suggested but, whilst not wanting a 'floating Gin palace', we will probably go for something more amenable to entertaining; although the Nordic Tug is a beauty...

Cheers,
Philip

 

[nicho]

Thanks ChromeDome, I was thinking that, more towards the 32' but newer might be the best approach. Most of the time it'll be just my wife and I and the children are still young enough to enjoy less luxury for the second berth .

It'll probably help from a handling perspective for a newbie!

32’ is marginal imo if you want friends and family to join you. We have a Sealine S34, great cockpit for entertaining in the marina but a bit crowded for seagoing trips with more than six. Personally, in your situation I would go more towards a Targa 40/ Sealine S42 - not sure if the former fits your budget, but an S41/42/43 certainly does, and having had an S41 can tell you their vast accommodation is second to none.

 

[Suffolk_Newbie]

Something like this might be a good compromise?
Decent size for a newbie to boat, flybridge single diesel engine (Yanmar) shaft drive. Cracking boat and under £100k
Viki 32 8354174 – Burton Waters Boat Sales

Thank you Sunny265, that's a boat that I hadn't seen, even though I'd been looking on Burton Waters' website. It's a fantastic option, although that one is no longer available but I'll certainly place Viki on my list of potentials.

 

[Suffolk_Newbie]

32’ is marginal imo if you want friends and family to join you. We have a Sealine S34, great cockpit for entertaining in the marina but a bit crowded for seagoing trips with more than six. Personally, in your situation I would go more towards a Targa 40/ Sealine S42 - not sure if the former fits your budget, but an S41/42/43 certainly does, and having had an S41 can tell you their vast accommodation is second to none.

Thanks nicho, I certainly wouldn't want to be undersize in terms of feeling cramped but a 40-42' size would obviously increase mooring fees, increase the age of the boat that I could buy and, probably my largest concern, potentially be too much to handle for a newbie.

On the latter point, how did you find the difference in handling between boat sizes?

 

[Suffolk_Newbie]

Thanks nacho, I certainly wouldn't want to be undersize in terms of feeling cramped but a 40-42' size would obviously increase mooring fees, increase the age of the boat that I could buy and, probably my largest concern, potentially be too much to handle for a newbie.

On the latter point, how did you find the difference in handling between boat sizes?

My apologies for nacho rather than nicho, an autocorrect was made without my noticing.

 

[Obi]

Wishing you a great time, perhaps update this thread with a pic when you find what you are looking for. Sorry I cannot offer advice, I dont know much about MB, I just wanted to show enthusiasm for your plans.

 

[Suffolk_Newbie]

Wishing you a great time, perhaps update this thread with a pic when you find what you are looking for. Sorry I cannot offer advice, I dont know much about MB, I just wanted to show enthusiasm for your plans.

Thanks Obi, I certainly will post a photo back and thanks for your support!

 

[DavidJ]

Twin engines give massive reassurance especially because they are independent from each other all the way back and including fuel tanks (you knew that already)
As @Greg2 says get the boat you want and don’t be constrained by shafts/outdrives. That debate will go on forever unresolved.
You do have a healthy budget but from my own personal biase I’ve had a Sealine S37 with non electro wizardry KAD43’s from new for 21 years and you could pick a decent one up for £100k. Sealines are renowned for their internal space which your wife will love. The S34 is also an excellent boat and save another £20k

 

[Suffolk_Newbie]

Twin engines give massive reassurance especially because they are independent from each other all the way back and including fuel tanks (you knew that already)
As @Greg2 says get the boat you want and don’t be constrained by shafts/outdrives. That debate will go on forever unresolved.
You do have a healthy budget but from my own personal biase I’ve had a Sealine S37 with non electro wizardry KAD43’s from new for 21 years and you could pick a decent one up for £100k. Sealines are renowned for their internal space which your wife will love. The S34 is also an excellent boat and save another £20k

Thanks DavidJ, it must be really satisfying and a lot of fun to have had your boat for so long from new.

I do like the look of the Sealine S37, it seems to be a nice boat, well proportioned, and still a decent looker after all of these years.

 

[Greg2]

+1 for the S34 - we had one before we got the Hardy and loved it. Very easy to handle and use and as with the majority of sports cruisers it has a sociable cockpit. Worth saying that a combination of a planing hull and outdrives can make close quarters and inland cruising a bit tricky but the S34 was a doddle to handle. Our previous Fairline Targa 35 not so much as it was a handful in close quarters. As you have identified, semi-displacement with shafts is a very good option for what you want to do but you won’t find that on a sportscruiser. It will quickly become obvious that all boats are a compromise!

On the issue of size nicho is right when he says that 32’ is marginal. After many years boating and perhaps in similar circumstances as you inasmuch as it is usually the two of us but we like to be able to accommodate occasional guests, we have found mid-thirties-ish in length footage (up to 37’-38’) to be the sweet spot. Boats of this size tend to have good accommodation, they are easily handled by a couple, moorings costs are okay (although that depends where you berth) and when coastal cruising you are far more likely to get a visitors mooring because you will fit into most pontoon berths.

Point taken about air draft on the southern rivers (that is where we spent most of our time on the Broads) but worth bearing in mind that some sports cruisers will struggle to get under the bridges at Gt Yarmouth if you do want to head north (we haven’t for years - too many hire boats, some of whom will collide with your pride and joy). I ended up doing a swift modification to the mast of our Targa that involved a hacksaw when we last headed north! On the southern rivers the first road bridge (A146) at Beccles is the one you want to look at for height (so you can get into the yacht station) - the rest are either definitely too low or they are swing bridges (when they work).

Back to NYA - they are an excellent outfit and if you are genuinely interested in a particular boat then a river trial is usually possible so if it is a planing hull and outdrives you can get a feel for it before committing.

It is worth saying that it is only when you start boating that you will really start to properly understand what works for you and what you want to do so don’t be surprised if you are changing within a year or two. The likelihood of this increases significantly if you go small from the start. FWIW my good lady hated the Hardy 36 and similar trawler types when we first looked at one many years ago - she loves it now!
.

 

[Elessar]

Hi all,

As my handle suggests, I'm a newbie to the forum and also to serious motor boating.

Having rented boats on the UK inland waterways for many years with the family and now being an 'empty-nester', I felt that it was time to step up a hobby that I've always hankered after and get into boat ownership. I'm imminently taking the PB2 and have PB Intermediate also booked, with an intention to also undertake RYA Day skipper theory course and PB Advanced.

I'm planning to buy a MoBo within the next 12 months (hopefully sooner, rather than later), with a budget of up to £170K in the 32' - 38' length, allowing my wife and I space for many weekends and several weeks a year onboard, but also for the grown up children to join us regularly. We would aim to keep it on the Norfolk Broads but with sea trips out of G.Yarmouth or Lowestoft for coastal and potentially, in the future, trips to France / The Netherlands.

The reason for the title of this thread is that, over the past few months of reading current and older threads on this forum, I seem to have become more confused than elucidated over a couple of things and hope that this erudite group might be able to give me their opinion on them:

1. Shafts are much better than Stern / Outdrives due to servicing costs and reliability?
2. A single engine might actually be a better option than a twin engine for my plans, as the perceived 'safety' of a second engine at sea is minimal if servicing is done well?

I'd also really appreciate any tips on boat options that fit my requirements.

Sorry for the length of the post but I wanted to provide enough information for you to form your opinions.

You’re not going to be any less confused now. If question 3 was “which anchor is best” that would have been icing on the cake.
You will get to hear lots of passionately argued opinions. Get your popcorn.

By the way to help those who might give actual advice, how much maintenance do you intend to do yourself v what you give to professionals?

 

[Suffolk_Newbie]

+1 for the S34 - we had one before we got the Hardy and loved it. Very easy to handle and use and as with the majority of sports cruisers it has a sociable cockpit. Worth saying that a combination of a planing hull and outdrives can make close quarters and inland cruising a bit tricky but the S34 was a doddle to handle. Our previous Fairline Targa 35 not so much as it was a handful in close quarters. As you have identified, semi-displacement with shafts is a very good option for what you want to do but you won’t find that on a sportscruiser. It will quickly become obvious that all boats are a compromise!

On the issue of size nicho is right when he says that 32’ is marginal. After many years boating and perhaps in similar circumstances as you inasmuch as it is usually the two of us but we like to be able to accommodate occasional guests, we have found mid-thirties-ish in length footage (up to 37’-38’) to be the sweet spot. Boats of this size tend to have good accommodation, they are easily handled by a couple, moorings costs are okay (although that depends where you berth) and when coastal cruising you are far more likely to get a visitors mooring because you will fit into most pontoon berths.

Point taken about air draft on the southern rivers (that is where we spent most of our time on the Broads) but worth bearing in mind that some sports cruisers will struggle to get under the bridges at Gt Yarmouth if you do want to head north (we haven’t for years - too many hire boats, some of whom will collide with your pride and joy). I ended up doing a swift modification to the mast of our Targa that involved a hacksaw when we last headed north! On the southern rivers the first road bridge (A146) at Beccles is the one you want to look at for height (so you can get into the yacht station) - the rest are either definitely too low or they are swing bridges (when they work).

Back to NYA - they are an excellent outfit and if you are genuinely interested in a particular boat then a river trial is usually possible so if it is a planing hull and outdrives you can get a feel for it before committing.

It is worth saying that it is only when you start boating that you will really start to properly understand what works for you and what you want to do so don’t be surprised if you are changing within a year or two. The likelihood of this increases significantly if you go small from the start. FWIW my good lady hated the Hardy 36 and similar trawler types when we first looked at one many years ago - she loves it now!
.

Thanks for the additional information Greg2, the handling of the S34 sounds positive, especially as most of the hours will be on the Broads, but with the right seakeeping for trips out. As you mentioned, the northern broads, which I've enjoyed many a holiday on, are not somewhere that I'd take my own boat to, and I can compromise on not being able to moor up at the Yarmouth Yacht Station.

It seems that NYA is a great place for us to start a serious boat hunt and I will certainly keep in mind that my ownership tenure for the first boat might be short!

BTW, the Hardy 36 looks great, and I just showed some photos to my wife who also likes it, surprisingly. However, they seem to also be like rocking horse manure when it comes to availability...

 

[Suffolk_Newbie]

You’re not going to be any less confused now. If question 3 was “which anchor is best” that would have been icing on the cake.
You will get to hear lots of passionately argued opinions. Get your popcorn.

By the way to help those who might give actual advice, how much maintenance do you intend to do yourself v what you give to professionals?

Thanks Elessar, I knew that additional confusion was a possibility but, after lurking for a while, thought that it would be good to get my own post out there and see what it would bring. To be fair, I've already got a lot of really good advice and it has helped, and so I'm grateful for the feedback of the contributors so far.

To your question about maintenance, many years ago, before I had an EV, and before that cars for which you needed a NASA computer to diagnose, I used to do my own maintenance on my cars and motorbikes: Oil changes, minor repairs, cleaning spark plugs, etc.

However, that was a long time ago and not a motorboat, but I am quite handy and will take one of the RYA Diesel engine maintenance courses, although I suspect that things such as properly maintaining outdrives (if that's what I end up buying) are best left to the professionals.