robp
Well-Known Member
Like you say, it's as good a place as anywhere!
G
Guest
Guest
Swoon!!!
Yes, 'fraid I'm one of them - unless you count an international certificate of competence (I wouldn't) and some dinghy certificates dating from the 70's...
Yes, 'fraid I'm one of them - unless you count an international certificate of competence (I wouldn't) and some dinghy certificates dating from the 70's...
G
Guest
Guest
Show some British Bulldog Spirit
Typical response form a transplanted Brit !
If any Herbert bounces me on the water I bounce back - and I suggest that the rest of you do so as well !
I ALWAYS chase after the buggers - putting the engine on if necessary and in a polite but positive way ask why they have not observed the colregs to ensure everyones safety at sea.
This season, so far, it has happened twice, surprise surprise both Blue Ensigned kite flyers. The first one threatened to call the police if I did not go away and the second caved in and said 'he would never do it again'.
Is it any wonder that standards are falling when most just 'moan' and do nothing !
p.s. If you do adopt this policy that was still in force up until the late fifties your wife will probably never sail with you again. I only mention this as another string to your bow should you need it.
Typical response form a transplanted Brit !
If any Herbert bounces me on the water I bounce back - and I suggest that the rest of you do so as well !
I ALWAYS chase after the buggers - putting the engine on if necessary and in a polite but positive way ask why they have not observed the colregs to ensure everyones safety at sea.
This season, so far, it has happened twice, surprise surprise both Blue Ensigned kite flyers. The first one threatened to call the police if I did not go away and the second caved in and said 'he would never do it again'.
Is it any wonder that standards are falling when most just 'moan' and do nothing !
p.s. If you do adopt this policy that was still in force up until the late fifties your wife will probably never sail with you again. I only mention this as another string to your bow should you need it.
G
Guest
Guest
I think there is a little of the "course sailor" in us all. After all when presented with being run down by a cross channel ferry, how many of us, instead of saying "lets luff up a bit" have resorted to "for Christ sake turn b***dy right. It may not be correct jargon, but it certainly works, no confusion whats-so-ever<s>
peterb
Well-Known Member
Yachtsmen
Don't forget that that word 'yachtsmen' covers both sail and power.
Many months ago I posted a 12-question quiz on IRPCS. The best result I got from anyone was of half-marks; 6 wrong. Two of the questions related to fishing lights; no one got them right.
Don't forget that that word 'yachtsmen' covers both sail and power.
Many months ago I posted a 12-question quiz on IRPCS. The best result I got from anyone was of half-marks; 6 wrong. Two of the questions related to fishing lights; no one got them right.
G
Guest
Guest
Be positive
I would like to thank all the dingy racers who make sailing out of Chichester Harbour such fun. I particularly like a Sunday morning with a sharp crew and a confident helm. Have done it a few times, that is, sail out from Thorney Creek against the wind beating the whole way to the entrance. It is great fun, sailing through so many races. I find that if one is polite, obvious and makes an effort not to hinder anyone’s progress, but does apply the anti-col regs, all you get is polite and cheery waves from the many extremely competitive and competent dinghy sailors. If I'm in a hurry, and am under power, I simply motor or motor-sail out applying the anti-col regs and being careful to not unnecessarily hinder dinghy sailors, not as challenging but still very enjoyable.
My experiance is that the competitive but competent dinghy sailors in Chichester Harbour are found elsewhere, and that all one needs is to obviously understand and respect them and they will understand and respect you.
I would like to thank all the dingy racers who make sailing out of Chichester Harbour such fun. I particularly like a Sunday morning with a sharp crew and a confident helm. Have done it a few times, that is, sail out from Thorney Creek against the wind beating the whole way to the entrance. It is great fun, sailing through so many races. I find that if one is polite, obvious and makes an effort not to hinder anyone’s progress, but does apply the anti-col regs, all you get is polite and cheery waves from the many extremely competitive and competent dinghy sailors. If I'm in a hurry, and am under power, I simply motor or motor-sail out applying the anti-col regs and being careful to not unnecessarily hinder dinghy sailors, not as challenging but still very enjoyable.
My experiance is that the competitive but competent dinghy sailors in Chichester Harbour are found elsewhere, and that all one needs is to obviously understand and respect them and they will understand and respect you.
oldharry
Well-Known Member
Re: Be positive
Sorry, but I do have to disagree about the dinghy sialors in Chi harbour. I suggest perhaps - maybe - the services types who sail in Thorney are a little more disciplined than the rest! Try going up Itchenor Channel when the 'Mirror Mob' are out - I swear they wait behind moored boats to pounce on the unwary skipping making his way down - then demand right of way in impossible situations in a narrow channel. I have to admit to some glee when bringing a large and rather unwieldy Catamaran down one day catching no less than 3 Toppers between the hulls when they tried to cut across my bows - I mean how the h*** do you stop 9 tons of boat at 4 Kts with a further 1.5kts tide under you in 5 seconds flat? (and the speed limit is 8 knots anyway). Presumably they did not realise they were carving up a multihull, in spite of warning shouts from me (and others). Thankfully no harm done apart from a wetting for the yobs concerned.
I am not sure the situation is any better further down the harbour either. It is not so lomng ago that salvage operations for a sunken boat at east head nearly ended in fatalaties when a dinghy fleet careered straight through the Divers operational zone in spite of clear A flags, and shouted warnings.
Just as on the road, Col Regs are there for everyones safety, and there is real danger if - even if signalled to do so - the 'stand on' vessel starts making unexpected illegal moves. In fact doing so is MORE likely to cause an accident. The stand on vessel slowing down to give way can actually CAUSE a collision, when the give way vessel is setting a course to clear astern of the other.
Of course prudent action needs to be taken in a potential collision situation. Dinghy sailors please note!!!!
Sorry, but I do have to disagree about the dinghy sialors in Chi harbour. I suggest perhaps - maybe - the services types who sail in Thorney are a little more disciplined than the rest! Try going up Itchenor Channel when the 'Mirror Mob' are out - I swear they wait behind moored boats to pounce on the unwary skipping making his way down - then demand right of way in impossible situations in a narrow channel. I have to admit to some glee when bringing a large and rather unwieldy Catamaran down one day catching no less than 3 Toppers between the hulls when they tried to cut across my bows - I mean how the h*** do you stop 9 tons of boat at 4 Kts with a further 1.5kts tide under you in 5 seconds flat? (and the speed limit is 8 knots anyway). Presumably they did not realise they were carving up a multihull, in spite of warning shouts from me (and others). Thankfully no harm done apart from a wetting for the yobs concerned.
I am not sure the situation is any better further down the harbour either. It is not so lomng ago that salvage operations for a sunken boat at east head nearly ended in fatalaties when a dinghy fleet careered straight through the Divers operational zone in spite of clear A flags, and shouted warnings.
Just as on the road, Col Regs are there for everyones safety, and there is real danger if - even if signalled to do so - the 'stand on' vessel starts making unexpected illegal moves. In fact doing so is MORE likely to cause an accident. The stand on vessel slowing down to give way can actually CAUSE a collision, when the give way vessel is setting a course to clear astern of the other.
Of course prudent action needs to be taken in a potential collision situation. Dinghy sailors please note!!!!
Bergman
Well-Known Member
Re: Seamanship
I had a similar experience neaar Lymington many years ago. I carefully passed astern of a dinghy, continued on my way only to receive a barrage of foul mouthed abuse for being in a bit of water that he wanted to sail into after he tacked.
I followed Vyv's example and set off after him with the intent of introducing him to the Order of the Fatted Lip.
Sadly my wife restrained me
I don't mind giving way but I can't manage to be clairvoyant.
I had a similar experience neaar Lymington many years ago. I carefully passed astern of a dinghy, continued on my way only to receive a barrage of foul mouthed abuse for being in a bit of water that he wanted to sail into after he tacked.
I followed Vyv's example and set off after him with the intent of introducing him to the Order of the Fatted Lip.
Sadly my wife restrained me
I don't mind giving way but I can't manage to be clairvoyant.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Yachtsmen
I have a suspicion that some yachtsmen (sail!) think that they have right of way over eg. a trawler engaged in fishing, just because it's a motor boat.
We often hear (sailing) yachtsmen complain about the erratic conduct of trawlers getting in their way. One suspects that some of these trawlers are engaged in trawling and the yachtsman hasn't realised that he has the responsibility to give way.
And if the (sailing) yachtsman hasn't learned eg. his fishing lights then how does he know whether he is obliged to give way to the motor vessel or not?
Also, where sailing yachts are the stand on vessel, they have an obligation to maintain their course (subject to not risking collision with that or another vessel). Much of what we hear about tacking in front of motor boats isn't very consistent with this.
I have a suspicion that some yachtsmen (sail!) think that they have right of way over eg. a trawler engaged in fishing, just because it's a motor boat.
We often hear (sailing) yachtsmen complain about the erratic conduct of trawlers getting in their way. One suspects that some of these trawlers are engaged in trawling and the yachtsman hasn't realised that he has the responsibility to give way.
And if the (sailing) yachtsman hasn't learned eg. his fishing lights then how does he know whether he is obliged to give way to the motor vessel or not?
Also, where sailing yachts are the stand on vessel, they have an obligation to maintain their course (subject to not risking collision with that or another vessel). Much of what we hear about tacking in front of motor boats isn't very consistent with this.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Dear Starfish
Has any of this lot of rant helped?
Probably not.
You may have gathered there are rules (Known as International Rules for the Prevention of Collisions at Sea - or colregs for short). Although well worth learning, these are fiercely complex. They have one inherent problem - even if you know them back to front and upside down, the liklihood that any other vessels you meet have the same level of knowledge is remote.
Therefore there are a few basic rules which are worth knowing, because most other sailors know them.
In narrow channels, proceed on the starboard side (ie, with your starboard side nearest the edge of the channel). Leave vessels coming in the other direction on your porthand side.
Most narrow channels have posted speed limits, please comply.
If you are overtaking, it is your responsibility to keep clear (see later re passing sailboats).
If you see another vessel which is crossing your course, if it coming from your starboard side you keep out of the way (generally by slowing down or altering course to pass ASTERN of it). If it is on your port side, hold your course. The other vessel should alter course to avoid you.
If you meet another vessel bow-to-bow, you both alter course to pass each other port to port.
Certain categories of vessel have absolute right of way as far as we leisure boaters are concerned. For practical purposes, these can be regarded as large commercial vessels in reasonably shallow or narrow waters, tugs with tows, fishing vessels engaged in fishing, dredgers and minesweepers. Keep out of their way.
Finally, except in bow-to-bow situations, it's good when altering course to do so by a miminum of 20 degrees. This makes sure the other fellow notices your course alteration. Less than that and he or she is left wondering whether you've seen them, and if so what you are going to do about it.
To learn more, there's a useful little book called (I think) "the seaman's guide to the rule of the road". There's also the text of colregs on the web in many places - try http://user.online.be/inspilot/scolreg.htm, for example.
Of course, that's all supposed to be mandatory, and much of it is also common sense. There's also the question of what is courteous. As a sailor, not a motorist, there are certain actions which a motorist can take which will be much appreciated by the rag-and-string brigade.
One of the most difficult things is to sail a boat well in very light winds (F2 and less). Any wash from your boat will almost certainly shake the wind out of the sails of a yacht if you pass too close. In these circumstances, 100 yards would be regarded as too close. If you don't have the room to pass at this distance or greater, then please adjust speed to create the least possible wash. (Note, with some planing motor boats, much less wash is created at planing speeds than at displacement speeds, so please don't drop off the plane hoping to be helpful.)
When there is more wind and sea, passing distances can be closer, but never less than 50 yards. Anything less makes us very nervous, and worried that you haven't seen us.
Also, when passing it's nice if you can do this downwind of us. This avoids messing up the wind coming onto our sails.
Any boat which is beating (sailing as close to the wind as possible - generally, the ones which are heeling over most), might tack at any moment. If they do tack, they will do so towards the wind. So if you are on their downwind side, they will tack away from you (goody). Please pay close attention to beating boats and be prepared to alter course or slow down if necessary. They are particularly likely to tack if the wind changes direction (what sailors call a windshift), or if they running out of water. Even a small cruiser likes to have a few feet of water under her keel, so not many sailboats on the South Coast will want to go into less than 4 metres of water, unless they are racing and trying to cheat the tide.
Starfish, I hope this helps. Enjoy your new boat!
Has any of this lot of rant helped?
Probably not.
You may have gathered there are rules (Known as International Rules for the Prevention of Collisions at Sea - or colregs for short). Although well worth learning, these are fiercely complex. They have one inherent problem - even if you know them back to front and upside down, the liklihood that any other vessels you meet have the same level of knowledge is remote.
Therefore there are a few basic rules which are worth knowing, because most other sailors know them.
In narrow channels, proceed on the starboard side (ie, with your starboard side nearest the edge of the channel). Leave vessels coming in the other direction on your porthand side.
Most narrow channels have posted speed limits, please comply.
If you are overtaking, it is your responsibility to keep clear (see later re passing sailboats).
If you see another vessel which is crossing your course, if it coming from your starboard side you keep out of the way (generally by slowing down or altering course to pass ASTERN of it). If it is on your port side, hold your course. The other vessel should alter course to avoid you.
If you meet another vessel bow-to-bow, you both alter course to pass each other port to port.
Certain categories of vessel have absolute right of way as far as we leisure boaters are concerned. For practical purposes, these can be regarded as large commercial vessels in reasonably shallow or narrow waters, tugs with tows, fishing vessels engaged in fishing, dredgers and minesweepers. Keep out of their way.
Finally, except in bow-to-bow situations, it's good when altering course to do so by a miminum of 20 degrees. This makes sure the other fellow notices your course alteration. Less than that and he or she is left wondering whether you've seen them, and if so what you are going to do about it.
To learn more, there's a useful little book called (I think) "the seaman's guide to the rule of the road". There's also the text of colregs on the web in many places - try http://user.online.be/inspilot/scolreg.htm, for example.
Of course, that's all supposed to be mandatory, and much of it is also common sense. There's also the question of what is courteous. As a sailor, not a motorist, there are certain actions which a motorist can take which will be much appreciated by the rag-and-string brigade.
One of the most difficult things is to sail a boat well in very light winds (F2 and less). Any wash from your boat will almost certainly shake the wind out of the sails of a yacht if you pass too close. In these circumstances, 100 yards would be regarded as too close. If you don't have the room to pass at this distance or greater, then please adjust speed to create the least possible wash. (Note, with some planing motor boats, much less wash is created at planing speeds than at displacement speeds, so please don't drop off the plane hoping to be helpful.)
When there is more wind and sea, passing distances can be closer, but never less than 50 yards. Anything less makes us very nervous, and worried that you haven't seen us.
Also, when passing it's nice if you can do this downwind of us. This avoids messing up the wind coming onto our sails.
Any boat which is beating (sailing as close to the wind as possible - generally, the ones which are heeling over most), might tack at any moment. If they do tack, they will do so towards the wind. So if you are on their downwind side, they will tack away from you (goody). Please pay close attention to beating boats and be prepared to alter course or slow down if necessary. They are particularly likely to tack if the wind changes direction (what sailors call a windshift), or if they running out of water. Even a small cruiser likes to have a few feet of water under her keel, so not many sailboats on the South Coast will want to go into less than 4 metres of water, unless they are racing and trying to cheat the tide.
Starfish, I hope this helps. Enjoy your new boat!
duncan
Well-Known Member
just another example of 'I can therefore I will' - includes jetski's and motor bikes, sail boats on starboard and large power craft @ 10kts (legal) with the wake from hell.
