Confused by varnish

Pirx

Pirx

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Back in the day one just purchased a tin of varnish and a bottle of white spirit, and I was happy.
Now I'm totally confused and would appreciate a steer. Tomorrow I shall order a tin of varnish: I'd like it to go on over whatever is there already ( and I have no idea what it is except it looks like varnish ), dry reasonably quickly, not be too bothered about low air temperature and not need exotic fluids to clean brushes.
Any thoughts ?
 
"Varnish" is a generic term that covers a whole range of different formulations with different properties. However whatever you choose it is unwise to put it on an existing coating unless you know what it is.

If you are looking for long life, easy application and maintenance then for external use consider porous woodstains such as International Woodskin or more sophisticated, Cetol No 7. The former is very popular as it is untinted, but does tend to darken wood and has a sheen rather than a gloss. The trade of is long life and easy touch up.
 
Tranona said:
"Varnish" is a generic term that covers a whole range of different formulations with different properties. However whatever you choose it is unwise to put it on an existing coating unless you know what it is.

If you are looking for long life, easy application and maintenance then for external use consider porous woodstains such as International Woodskin or more sophisticated, Cetol No 7. The former is very popular as it is untinted, but does tend to darken wood and has a sheen rather than a gloss. The trade of is long life and easy touch up.
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yes but he wants it to go over existing varnish. I have just used Ronseal exterior or their yacht varnish and it does what it says on the tin! Not to say that the more 'exotic' ones like le tonkinos may not be a bit better.
Brush cleaning is an issue, I dont think that the water based 'easy clean' varnishes are much good externally. I use throw away brushes and ( depending on the time between coats/temperature etc) sometimes wrap the brushes in plastic and use them for the next coat.
 
Pirx said:
Back in the day one just purchased a tin of varnish and a bottle of white spirit, and I was happy.
Now I'm totally confused and would appreciate a steer. Tomorrow I shall order a tin of varnish: I'd like it to go on over whatever is there already ( and I have no idea what it is except it looks like varnish ), dry reasonably quickly, not be too bothered about low air temperature and not need exotic fluids to clean brushes.
Any thoughts ?
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You haven't been breathing it in have you?
 
Thank you everyone - I'm now (happily) more confused than ever :)

Pye_End said:
What wood is it going on?
Inside or out?
Matt or gloss?
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Outside, gloss, no idea what the wood is. Already varnished but not in very good condition: handrails, washboards, odd structural parts. Complicated as two different boats.
 
eddystone said:
You haven't been breathing it in have you?
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No, but I'm looking forward ...........
Seriously, I used to love the smell of traditional varnish on a sunny spring morning - the modern formulations don't have to same appeal.
 
Non teak I use Epiphanes UV. Love Le Tonk as well, but personally find it less durable on places that take donks etc.

On teak I use 1 coat Sikkens cetol HLS plus and then 2 coats of Cetol Filter 7 plus. From memory it copes with lower application temperatures and has faster drying times. Easier to maintain in the long term.
 
Rather than just throwing brand names at you here’s a start:
You can use single pack varnishes over 2 pack, not the other way round, so if you don’t know what’s on there use a single pack varnish.
polyurethane and traditional varnishes can both overcoat each other, so you can use either.
Traditional varnishes tend to be softer so will wear through quicker if they’re rubbed by lines, feet etc.
Despite what people claim I believe all yacht varnishes are superior than non yacht brands in terms of uv resistance and longevity
I wouldn’t use water based varnish on a boat.
 
Pirx said:
Thank you everyone - I'm now (happily) more confused than ever :)



Outside, gloss, no idea what the wood is. Already varnished but not in very good condition: handrails, washboards, odd structural parts. Complicated as two different boats.
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There are no short cuts with coatings. If you just want to cover it up and make it look shiny for a year then just slap a coat of cheap "yacht varnish" from B&Q. If you want a durable good looking finish then strip it all off and start again with the potion of choice. My preference would be Woodskin for low cost and ease of application, but if you get an appropriate tint the Sikkens as suggested by Pye_End. I did a mast with it a couple of years ago and last year all the new barge boards on the front of my house. Fully expect both to last 15-20 years - but not a high class yotty finish.
 
Tranona said:
My preference would be Woodskin
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My experience of Woodskin is it evaporates after two months.

I heard a lot of good comments about it on there, but really disappointed with the stuff. Others have reported the same. Has there been a change in formulation?
 
Sandy said:
My experience of Woodskin is it evaporates after two months.

I heard a lot of good comments about it on there, but really disappointed with the stuff. Others have reported the same. Has there been a change in formulation?
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Not as far as I know. I did my Bavaria teak trim 3 years ago and it is still fine. First used it 15 years ago and seems the same. A boom I did around 2011 was still OK when I sold the boat in 2019 and the mahogany trim on that boat was first done in 2009 and has only needed a rub down and recoat twice. My only dislikes are that it dulls after 3 or 4 years and it is sift so not very good in high wear situations.
 
Sandy said:
My experience of Woodskin is it evaporates after two months.
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How can it possibly evaporate after two months? It dries to be a solid coating like varnish (albeit slightly less hard and only a sheen rather than hi-gloss). Do your other paints mysteriously evaporate?

The trouble with Woodskin is that people believe it's the lazy man's varnish and that surface preparation is less critical. I've seen people slap in on damp wood, softened wood, remains of previous varnish coatings, etc, etc. But the surface preparation and wood condition are as critical as varnish. But when done well you get a coating that is good for many years, and any chips or wear points are easy to make good. The trade off is that it's not a superyacht standard deep gloss.
 
I thought woodskin was brilliant but after many years it just flakes off leaving bare wood making it impossible to match back in.
I put many coats on our new sapele garage doors . It has hundreds of stain/dots under the coating now and looks like old/faded varnish.
Similar story on the mahogany on my boat. The verticle surfaces have fared ok but all the horizontal surfaces have failed.
 
I find Woodskin easier to remove and re-finish than varnish, but at the moment prefer the Sikkens to Woodskin. I havn't yet had to re-sand/scrape/re-new yet, so could still change my mind! Seems a more durable finish on teak than anything else I have tried so far. Havn't tried it on non-teak as varnish largely does a reasonable job.

My washboards are coated with epoxy with varnish on top - this has been a big reduction in the need to bring them home regularly to scrape and start again.
 
harvey38 said:
Epifanes, love the stuff??
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I was having trouble with our oak front door as it started to go black in places. I took a long time planing, and sanding down, and scarfing in a couple of new pieces. I prefer Meths to white spirit for wiping down, then finished with 12 coats of Epifanes, it has stood up well for 4 years.
Pick the right one for the job you need and it should give you years of good protection.
 
I've always used good old Ronsons yacht varnish on boat woodwork. It does what it says on the tin and has many admirable properties :- cheap, easy to apply, UV resistant, reasonable finish, easy touch up. I once had a long chat with the Le Tonk man at a boat jumble and must admit that the finish he had on his display items was first class but I'm never going to get that outside even with 15 coats - life's too short.
 
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