Conflicting advice on sails, need a neutral voice

whilst I have the attention of the assembled parties...

If you have a set of 8 year old Dacron cruising sails that were originally of very good quality, which are fully battened and 3 positions for slab reefing on the main and they are showing a bit of stretch but nothing too serious.....

Is it possible to get them recut, reshaped?
Does Dacron continue to stretch or does it reach a point where it stops?

This enquiry isn't for the new boat you've just bought then Ken?
A little bird told me something earlier in the week. ??? ... :-)
 
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DJE said:
I think in future I'd go for either pure laminate or high tech reinforced Dacron and I wouldn't bother with the UV strip either.
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I have chosen to order new cruising laminate with no UV strip and to use instead a sock that zips over the sail. I've not seen many of these about (in fact, only one) but I have been promised it will work. Does anyone have any experience?
 
Cerddinen said:
I have chosen to order new cruising laminate with no UV strip and to use instead a sock that zips over the sail. I've not seen many of these about (in fact, only one) but I have been promised it will work. Does anyone have any experience?
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My experiance with the "sock" is that it can be a nightmare in galeforce winds. They are generally not a tight enough fit, so you have to have a line wound around the outside to effectively tighten it up. They are a pain in the arse. I have seen them literally flapping the boat apart in a bad gale. Also if you are in sunny climes you will not be bothered to put it up when you are anchored, and your sails will disintegrate much faster from UV.

I would change the order at once, and get a strip put on.
 
Cerddinen said:
I have chosen to order new cruising laminate with no UV strip and to use instead a sock that zips over the sail. I've not seen many of these about (in fact, only one) but I have been promised it will work. Does anyone have any experience?
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Only experience was watching a visitor fit one before leaving his boat in our marina for a few weeks. It took two of them about ten to fifteen minutes, so probably is not going to be done every time the sail is rolled away. Also, I did look into getting two for my boat as no UV strips fitted, but one supplier's info warned against using them in strong winds, so no use in my neck of the woods.
 
Chris_Robb said:
My experiance with the "sock" is that it can be a nightmare in galeforce winds. They are generally not a tight enough fit, so you have to have a line wound around the outside to effectively tighten it up. They are a pain in the arse. I have seen them literally flapping the boat apart in a bad gale. Also if you are in sunny climes you will not be bothered to put it up when you are anchored, and your sails will disintegrate much faster from UV.

I would change the order at once, and get a strip put on.
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I would have to agree.

The best solution is to drop, flake and store below every time you've finished with the sail.
The next best solution is a UV strip. It's frankly just as easy to drop the sail as it is to put a cover on.
 
Cerddinen said:
I have chosen to order new cruising laminate with no UV strip and to use instead a sock that zips over the sail. I've not seen many of these about (in fact, only one) but I have been promised it will work. Does anyone have any experience?
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I inherited one of these 'socks'...... in canvas similar to the hood. A pain in the proverbial!
Hoisting wasn't as simple as I had thought after sorting out the ties and laceing, it took time especially in the dark.
I have it in my garage now as I got fed up with the hoisting at the end of a trip on a Sunday night when all we wanted to do was to get packed away and drive the 80 miles home without too much hassle.
It also took up valuable space inside a 28 footer.
I now have white sacrificial strip on the genoa sewn on by my local sailmaker.
 
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Not retired but a small and independent sailmaker who's always been very helpful in my experience: Mark Flew of Flew sails at Wicormarine. 01329 822676.
 
For a twitchy, modern boat which needs a lot of trimming then I would recommend laminate. You can achieve a very flat sail shape. For a Twister which is much more tolerant of baggy sails (as others have said, possibly not so relevant)

Couple of points on laminate - it's quite possible that it will be significantly heavier than the dacron equivalent (at least mine is) especially if it is tri-radial. I havent noticed any mildew on mine after four seasons BUT I do remove and flake the headsail religiously and all the sails come off from Sept onwards.

You also have to think a bit like a racer eg no motor sailing with the main flogging as that will hasten any delamination

You may want a dyneema main haliard to get the best out of aminate (but leave the genoa halliard as non-dyneema or you will strain the furling gear)
 
Talk to Bainbridge, ask them for samples and specifications of all their sailcloths, then go and find a sewing machinist (sail maker)
 
IMHO, if it is a modern high performance cruiser, particularly with a tall narrow rig, and you can afford the expense and potential shorter life - then the laminates are definitely what to go for.

If the hull/rig are not of the performance type, or cost/longevity the priorities, a quality Dacron will be fine

We had high tech sails on the boat when we got it, but when the aged the genoa got damaged ait was deemed un-repairable - so went from fast to scrap in a weekend.
Still have a high aspect No 3 solent / blade jib in racing laminate which is fantastic when I can be bothered hoisting.
But for the main roller genoa we went for the dacron in the end and ver happy with it. Still sails fast - and don't have to worry so much about mould and rough treatment.
 
Twister_Ken said:
Yes.

Scratches head. Goes to sit in dark corner.

What I'd really like to find is a retired/resting sailmaker who no longer has an axe to grind.
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What makes you think that they just have an axe to grind? All sailmakers will be able to make you both dacron and laminate. I've certainly never felt that they were simply trying to persuade me to have the most expensive or the easiest.

Whilst I cant say I'm over impressed with the quality of their sails, the people at kemp have always been willing to chat for ages on the phone about the merits of different designs / materials.
 
Twister_Ken said:
"What makes you think that they just have an axe to grind?"

The fact that two respected sailmakers have come up with diametrically opposed solutions given exactly the same brief!
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Not sure they are "diametrically opposed" If one was suggesting Egyptian cotton and the other laminate I might agree.

However, think you are looking more at what I might call "cross over". Makers of Dacron sails have developed materials that minimise the negative aspects - particularly stretch - and laminates develop materials that minimise their negative aspects - well explained in this thread. Hardly surprising then, that where the two meet closest you get advice both ways.

Guess it is then up to the individual to choose the compromise that suits him - something like

"Do I go for laminate for the potentially better shape and accept they will be hard, heavy, might suffer from mildew etc and have a shortish effective life?"

or

"Do I go for Dacron and accept that shape may not be so good and may deteriorate over time - but get the benefits of easier handling, greater tolerance of abuse and potentially longer life"

Your mate's call - its his dosh. This is what consumer choice is all about! And why both alternatives exist.

Or he could just toss a coin and blame his mistake on Lady Luck.
 
Twister_Ken said:
"What makes you think that they just have an axe to grind?"

The fact that two respected sailmakers have come up with diametrically opposed solutions given exactly the same brief!
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When I discussed our options with Paul Lees at Crusader, he spelled out all of the options and the advantages, disadvantages and costs that each entailed, the final inevitable compromise choice was mine. In fact in cost terms the differences in the high tech materials were not huge and especially not when considered as a percentage of the overall cost of the sails. As they were able to make all of these in-house from design stage through cutting and making up I don't see there is any axe to grind at all. However each sailmaker will no doubt have a personal opinion rather than an axe, depending on perhaps their own sailing activities! Paul races X Boats, has raced amonst other things from quarter tonners up (including Pinball Wizard in '79 Fastnet), currently has an old gaffer and did the sails for Gypsy Moth's recent RTW so isn't as 'polarised' in his views as some might be perhaps.
 
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