Computers-again!

[Guest]

Does anybody have experience with the Panasonic Toughbook CF-25 for on board use?

It seems to be quite a good idea for on-board use as it might survive falling off the chart table, which is more than just about any other electronic device does!

(Yes, I know computers are the work of the Devil and Bill Gates is his spawn, but we all use the damned things, if we read this forum, and we don't all spend every minute thrashing to windward in the rain, in fact revising my col-reg knowledge using my Yachtmaster CD seems like quite a good way to spend a few minutes after dinner at anchor somewhere peaceful)

 

[MedMan]

I used one for five years before buying a more up-to-date model last year.

They are a first-class piece of kit: very strong, at least partially waterproof and shock resistant. They were developed by Panasonic for use by the Gas Board in the field so they had to be tough. The only problem is cost - they are very expensive compared with mass-produced models.. They also tend to use technology six months behind the cutting edge, if that matters to you. If you can afford one, go for it.

 

[hylas]

I had been using four successive laptop comptuters in board and I strongly believe that the next one will be a standard computer with a TFT screen...

 

[Trevethan]

This is the route I intend to take next time too. My one concern is the slihtly dodgy modified sine wave most invertors push out. Do you know is a UPS (as opposed to a surge surpressor) system would smooth out the wave form and generally preserve the PC from the vagaries of onboard and marina power supplies?

 

[webcraft]

I'm thinking along the lines of a Genex mini-PC (about as big as two CD ROM drives) which can be hung in a webbing cradle or generally hidden away in a shockproof way, with an external keyboard - maybe waterproof - plugged in to it. A 15" TFT screen for about £250 completes the kit.

What would be really nice would be a smaller size TFT - 15" is really to big for a small boat, but any smaller TFT screens I've seen cost a fortune. 10" would really be big enough.

Has anyone on this forum any experiences of using mini-PCs rather than notebooks on board?

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue>
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com>

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[stefan_r]

I was thinking of one of these but went for a good spec second hand IBM (PII 300MHz (512KB) 64MB RAM 8.1GB 14.1 XGA TFT ) for £250 and got a waterproof keyboard, external mouse and external screen so the machine is hidden away and all the other stuff is where you can see it.


I must point out that when this machine was first for sale it was about £3-4,000 worth, so for £250 boxed, guaranteed and never used (as I saw when I got it) this makes financial sense.


At roughly 10% of the cost of the Panasonic (with the backup of 2 screens - laptop TFT and second remote screen) I felt it was a better deal to stay a year or 2 behind technology and have the option to renew the technology as opposed to being marrried to £2k of laptop.

FYI you can sometimes find second hand Toughbooks........this would be my route next time perhaps.

Word of caution - don't get a cordless mouse / keyboard - they don't work in sunlight!!!!!

Cheers
Stefan

mailto: stefan@athito.com

 

[Guest]

The separate units setup must be preferable, but tell me, where did you get the waterproof keyboard and the separate screen? The only separate flat-screens I have seen seem to be very expensive compared with about £250 for a used Toughbook complete with a dedicated 12 volt power supply, but if you can get flat screens without them costing the earth I would be very interested.

Thanks

 

[Robin2]

I have a regular PC on board and I have no problems with it. So far I have taken it sailing while switched off - simply because I have not organised a power supply for it yet - ie new household batteries.

I don't believe boats will subject PCs to unreasonable shock loads as long as they don't fall on the floor and nothing else falls onto them.

Stong vibrations, such as from the engine, would probably do more harm.

I am hoping to replace it with a laptop for convenience next year - probably a second-hand one.

 

[davidbains]

The Toughbook sounds ideal especially if you can find one secondhand, try Morgan computers, they have a website.
In my experience inverters are unreliable and noisy.
I went sailing with an Apple I Book with 12inch screen last year. They're designed for students with some shockabsorbing and mine survived a fall to the floor. They also can be supplied directly with 24volts using a Powerbook auto adaptor so no inverter noise. In fact while using a PC laptop several years before I found the inverter caused radio interference so weather fax could only be used on battery, not veryconvenient.
Masxsea (although not the latest version) works on OS 9. No problem although it seems to be best to use Maxsea's own Mapmedia charts.
Plenty of radio software available from Black Cat systems, particularly Multimode.
If you prefer a PC then Marine Computing will supply all the hardware and software you will ever need. I have found them patient and helpful even with a Mac user.
The last two editions of Lattitudes and Attitudes have had long articles on the use of computers aboard, with the author recommending the mini PC route over the laptop. But most people still use laptops.

 

[stefan_r]

hmmmm not sure if we are talking at cross purposes...this is my setup:

---IBM laptop £250

---LCD screen £200

---standard trackball (not waterproof) £20

---waterproof keyboard £30

---with Transas Navigator if that's important to anyone



Connecting it all using ONLY 6 miles of cable AND having a remote station on the flybridge AND getting it working....priceless!


mailto: stefan@athito.com

 

[kdf]

I have had laptops on board for the last couple of years. Never went with the rugged ones - just the standard and they seemed fine. My current setup is as follows -

Toshiba Portege 500 mhz 20 kb drive 512 megs memory. This is mounted behind the panel at my chart table. From that I have a wireless waterproof keyboard and mouse setup (No cables to the pc) and a 1024*768 TFT flat panel touch screen mounted on the panel. There is also an external DVD player and the TFT is on an arm and can swing out from the inst panel and face forward. This way the kids can use it to play DVD's when in harbour.

The touch screen is great and I can use it with Tsunamis Navigator and I don't usually need the keyboard or mouse when passage making.

 

[steve_cronin]

a good way to spend a few minutes after dinner at

I would venture to suggest that this time might be better spent making love to one's (or someone else's) wife rather than playing sailors!

They're called PLEASURE boats you know!

Steve Cronin

laptops are very expensive toys that have no place on boats

 

[colvic]

Computers are not toys and steve should know better! I have used a computer on-board for over four years and wouldn't be without it.There are all sorts of posibilities and you don't have to go to the unwarranted expense of an overpriced laptop.

We use an ordinary desktop pc built-in under the chart table with a hinge away LCD screen. At the moment you could by a package like this with CD writer, DVD, modem, LCD screen, Win XP, etc.etc. for less than a grand with a 3 year warranty.

If you want some very practicle advice coupled with a small bit of knowledge contact me direct.

Phil

 

[Oldhand]

I have just installed a "Cappuccino" type mini-PC to replace a larger and more power hungry machine. With a 12/18v DC converter to supply power instead an inverter for the old machine, power consumption has halved (1.5 to 2A while screen asleep) and heat generation much reduced. The DC converter also generates less EMC thus I can receive weaker stations on the ICOM PCR-1000 receiver I have connected to the PC. I was recommeded and used a portable CD player mounting kit to reduce shock and vibration input to the PC.

The downside is these mini-PC's only have one COM port. As boating applications still live in the dark ages of using serial ports instead of USB for data transfer, this can be a problem. I have used a USB/Serial port adapter to provide a second COM port but the only thing I have found to work on this is NMEA data in to MaxSea. This application however fails to trasmit waypoint and route data on the same port.

Go for the slowest processor you can find to keep power consumption to a minimum, mine is a 800MHz Celeron which is perfectly adeqaute for sailing applications. Shop around on the internet, prices for mini-PC's vary considerably. MicroPC Ltd in Leeds was by far the cheapest, www.micro-pc.co.uk.