Computer-free diesel heater?

jerrytug

jerrytug

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If I want to fit diesel-fired blown hot air, is it possible to buy a model which has no computer/ECU, and never shuts down unless I want it to?
All makes seem to have endless issues with the computer deciding something is wrong, then demanding complex resetting or recourse to a dealer.
This would be totally unacceptable to me, so can anyone recommend a diesel blown air heater which is available new and has NO COMPUTER?
I have a Webasto HL3003 which starts on a clockwork timer and just about works, despite being a 40yr old relic from a German army lorry or something. Which company could recondition it for me? The glowplugs are available.
Thanks for suggestions Jerry
I am aware of Refleks and Dickinsons etc, looking to see if I can find *reliable* blown hot air.
 
The problem with blown air heaters is that the ignition and shutdown phases require lots of different things to be monitored and timed, for safety reasons, so some sort of "computer" is inevitable. Even the 30-year-old Eberspacher D3L has a complex control box.
 
jerrytug said:
If I want to fit diesel-fired blown hot air, is it possible to buy a model which has no computer/ECU, and never shuts down unless I want it to?
All makes seem to have endless issues with the computer deciding something is wrong, then demanding complex resetting or recourse to a dealer.
This would be totally unacceptable to me, so can anyone recommend a diesel blown air heater which is available new and has NO COMPUTER?
I have a Webasto HL3003 which starts on a clockwork timer and just about works, despite being a 40yr old relic from a German army lorry or something. Which company could recondition it for me? The glowplugs are available.
Thanks for suggestions Jerry
I am aware of Refleks and Dickinsons etc, looking to see if I can find *reliable* blown hot air.
Click to expand...
You could make up a simple switch panel for an Eber. On switch which sends full power to the fan so it spools up to full speed. Power to a simple auto on off module from Maplins that delivers on off to the tick tick pump. a push button to power the glow plug on the start cycle, let go when it reaches the self sustaining temp. That will work, but what happens if it over heats etc?
S
 
Thanks for the useful practical suggestions. And thanks for the useless one anyway SM.. VHF radios don't need computers, for your information ;)
 
sailorman said:
AIS anyone
Click to expand...

Ok you win. But it's the Eber type ECU's which I was on about really, and how to have blown hot air without electronics. My very old battered Webasto doesn't need anything more than a clockwork timer and a flame sensor, so why do the new ones have such problems? There is a constant stream of threads about them cutting out etc.
 
I've got two Webastos in my current boat and hate them with a vengance. There's no reason whatsoever why they need to be so complicated. It just makes for more things to go wrong - which they do. I believe Ebers are similar.

Not sure about their current models but I had a Mikuni in my previous boat. The original Webasto packed up after 18 months. A friend recommended Mikuni which then served me very well for almost 18 years as a liveaboard. In all that time it failed just twice. Yes it had electronics but pretty simplistic and just enough to give it basic functionality. Since then Mikuni may have gone the same was as Webs and Ebers but worth a look just in case.

Edited to add the Mikuni switched between half heat and full heat and never shut down unless I switched it off
 
Last edited:
Wavey said:
Not sure about their current models but I had a Mikuni in my previous boat. The original Webasto packed up after 18 months. A friend recommended Mikuni which then served me very well for almost 18 years as a liveaboard. In all that time it failed just twice. Yes it had electronics but pretty simplistic and just enough to give it basic functionality. Since then Mikuni may have gone the same was as Webs and Ebers but worth a look just in case.

Edited to add the Mikuni switched between half heat and full heat and never shut down unless I switched it off
Click to expand...

I fitted a Mikuni MY30 (3.5kW blown air heater like an Ebber or Webasto) in 2009 I think, and it still has relatively simple controls. The point is not that it has or hasn't a CPU in its control box, but the complexity of the control state-machine is appropriate to what is a very simple device. Fortunately the Mikuni seems to have kept it appropriately simple and doesn't (unlike the Ebber which proved unreliable - albeit probably due to poor installation) lock one out for ever nor display fault codes: there is in fact no LCD display.
 
jdc said:
I fitted a Mikuni MY30 (3.5kW blown air heater like an Ebber or Webasto) in 2009 I think, and it still has relatively simple controls. The point is not that it has or hasn't a CPU in its control box, but the complexity of the control state-machine is appropriate to what is a very simple device. Fortunately the Mikuni seems to have kept it appropriately simple and doesn't (unlike the Ebber which proved unreliable - albeit probably due to poor installation) lock one out for ever nor display fault codes: there is in fact no LCD display.
Click to expand...

+ 1 The Mikuni is probably the closest thing to what you are after and pretty reliable but have had two issues with the glow plug which is a fairly simple job to replace.
 
Why not a static heater like dickinson et al.You can as I recall add a fan blower to help cabin circulation and if you have another cabin that needs heating you can pipe up a blower fan to the other spaces.
Drip fed heaters can be as simple or complex as you want them.
Certainly my experience of a single heat source in a large volume two cabin 11 metre motor sailer is that even without blowers/circulating fans it gets hot even in mid winter!
 
You have to have a controller of some sort with blown air diesels. The early ones were built with very minimal electronics, it can be done. I have a very early Webasto, the controller does the absolute minimum it has to. Computerised controllers are very good, they will do a good job, a better job than can be done without intelligent controllers. The problems come when manufacturers want to introduce software that limits serviceability. The motives for this may be safety, EU rules(?) or more likely tie the owner into having to go to dealer or agent and have the controller unlocked or fault codes read with magic boxes at great cost.
 
We also have a Mikuni, and although it hasn't been used much, we are very happy with it. I think you need to be a little careful using YBW as an indication of the reliability or otherwise of webers, Ebers etc - I suspect you only hear the horror stories because people that post are seeking advice. It might be worth running a poll to see how many people have which heaters and of those people how many have had problems - it would be interesting to see the proportion of people with each type of heater that have had problems.

Neil
 
jerrytug said:
Ok you win. But it's the Eber type ECU's which I was on about really, and how to have blown hot air without electronics. My very old battered Webasto doesn't need anything more than a clockwork timer and a flame sensor, so why do the new ones have such problems? There is a constant stream of threads about them cutting out etc.
Click to expand...

The answer to your problem with eber is to buy mikuni. 20 years old, never serivced in my ownership, still starts first time every time, with the one exception of the time I got diesel bug.
 
ffiill said:
Why not a static heater like dickinson et al.You can as I recall add a fan blower to help cabin circulation and if you have another cabin that needs heating you can pipe up a blower fan to the other spaces.
Drip fed heaters can be as simple or complex as you want them.
Certainly my experience of a single heat source in a large volume two cabin 11 metre motor sailer is that even without blowers/circulating fans it gets hot even in mid winter!
Click to expand...

Thanks ffil it would be in addition to a static..I reckon you need two independent forms of heating for when the blown air one goes 'tech', the dread words: computer says no.
 
savageseadog said:
You have to have a controller of some sort with blown air diesels. The early ones were built with very minimal electronics, it can be done. I have a very early Webasto, the controller does the absolute minimum it has to. Computerised controllers are very good, they will do a good job, a better job than can be done without intelligent controllers. The problems come when manufacturers want to introduce software that limits serviceability. The motives for this may be safety, EU rules(?) or more likely tie the owner into having to go to dealer or agent and have the controller unlocked or fault codes read with magic boxes at great cost.
Click to expand...
Thanks SSD that's a good point, and computerised ones might be a little bit more economical as well? .. but imagine being freezing cold and having to pay an engineer in Sweden or somewhere to plug his diagnostic kit in :(
 
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