Compulsory Training ?

DIW

DIW

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Having watched in dismay at the antics of an inexperienced owner on his first boat (38ft sports cruiser) and the damage caused to adjacent boats in the Marina I have reluctantly changed my opinion on the requirement to undertake some compulsory training in basic boat handling etc. before being allowed to skipper a boat for the first time.

I have always believed that responsible boat owners would undertake some form of training by their own volition and that any enforced requirement would be unnecessary.

Not that any amount of training guarantees you will not make the occasional foul up but at least you have knowledge of the basics.

The guy I observed, allegedly, refused the offer of some basic handling lessons offered by the broker (why???) apparently with the comment ‘no need, nuffin to it, piece of p**s’.

After his unfortunate and expensive experience I think he may well have changed his opinion!
 
Unfortunately the irresponsible boat owner will not avail themselves of the prerequisite training even if mandatory.

It is mandatory to have paid a BW licence fee, display reg numbers prominently and stick to a 6 knot speed limit on the Yorkshire Ouse, yet on a hot bank holiday weekend, the number of unlicenced RIBs that have been launched from an out of the way slip and are flying up and down river at 40knots, full of pissed up passengers has to be seen to be believed.

However, it could form part of a marina berthing agreement that the owner should submit his qualifications just like he does with his insurance docs. For those qualified by experience, I suppose the marina could issue a bertholder's licence in place of formal qualifications that prove competence over a number of years.

But that would not stop the irresponsible element who do not berth at that marina.
 
Licencing has been compulsory on our roads for at least 50 years - yet thousands are driving around unlicenced. And that's with a large police force to enforce the law.

Whilst I totally agree with the sentiments behind the OP, how would you enforce this? It's incredibly easy on a boat (compared to a car) to change whoever was at the helm, and I can't see a harbourmaster dealing with 5 half-drunk youths on a boat arguing over who was driving. And don't even begin to look to HMCG to enforce it, MCA enforcement are hard stretched to deal with shipping and seafarers, never mind the general public.

I do, however, agree with compulsory licensing and insurance - and any boat unregistered can simply be seized. But again, we probably have an issue with who would enforce, although I'd have thought the sale of unregistered craft could fund any scheme.
 
generally you enforce it with penalty clauses that matter - it's really that simple.

in the US a few years ago they added the tow vehicle to the list of gear that could be confiscated in the case of breaches to the catch and release individual regulations - added to the boat, the fishing tackle, anything and everything on the boat etc etc etc

on our roads the threat of getting your £300 car crushed for failure to purchase tax at 180, insurance at 1000, mot at ?????, or any fine for no licence (what can you afford to pay sir/madam?) doesn't represent any concern - more a 'sale bargain'
 
Single cases make bad law as we have seen in other areas. None of the bodies responsible for aspects of boating safety recommend any kind of compulsory training.

Poor boathandling is not endemic and people learn pretty quickly or get out if they can't handle it. Legislation and enforcement is overkill for what is a minor problem.
 
ok

DIW said:
Having watched in dismay at the antics of an inexperienced owner on his first boat (38ft sports cruiser) and the damage caused to adjacent boats in the Marina I have reluctantly changed my opinion on the requirement to undertake some compulsory training in basic boat handling etc. before being allowed to skipper a boat for the first time.

I have always believed that responsible boat owners would undertake some form of training by their own volition and that any enforced requirement would be unnecessary.

Not that any amount of training guarantees you will not make the occasional foul up but at least you have knowledge of the basics.

The guy I observed, allegedly, refused the offer of some basic handling lessons offered by the broker (why???) apparently with the comment ‘no need, nuffin to it, piece of p**s’.

After his unfortunate and expensive experience I think he may well have changed his opinion!
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Insurance company's will normally ask for some form of training before they can take the boat out on their own, but there are a few still who do not stipulate this.
 
but, respected PS Lady, that pre-supposes that the owner has got insurance....

Perhaps the first stage is to insist on insurance, and to get the insurance companies and brokers to insist on proof of training before issuing a chitty.

At least it would be a start !
 
Insurance company's will normally ask for some form of training before they can take the boat out on their own, but there are a few still who do not stipulate this.
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Mine certaintly did but then again even if it hadn't I would still have had some training. Even towards the end of my first season I would still not rate my ability beyond beginner. It is humbling watching my son reverse into our berth. He finds it simple whereas I always end up sideways so guess who normally berths us when we arrive back ;-)
 
true

sarabande said:
but, respected PS Lady, that pre-supposes that the owner has got insurance....

Perhaps the first stage is to insist on insurance, and to get the insurance companies and brokers to insist on proof of training before issuing a chitty.

At least it would be a start !
Click to expand...

but most marinas , I believe want proof of insurance for a berth. Its like cars I expect, there will always be some.!!!
 
My marina does and insists on £3mill indemnity as does British Waterways before they issue a licence. All as mentioned earlier.
This still does not prevent the idiots in the RIBs.

Bobbies on boats with the screw spinning is what is required. Not cop launch sat at dock unmanned 350 days a year.
 
i agree with the op after witnessing some terrible manourving in our marina.
Only this weekend, on saturday and guy couldnt steer straight for toffee and hit someone, just carried on his merry way, then scared upteen boats at the fuel pontoon who all decided to scarper as reved away and got more and more flustered, eventually ramming the fuel pontoon head on.
Today someone tried to destroy the concrete slip way side walls with every corner of vessel, several times, you can guess which one lost.
August bank holiday brings them all out.
 
I absolutly agree that training is essential.

As a newbi, I thought it would be dead easy but did have a trained instructor on board for two days.

Unfortunatly, I also hit boats went left to my own devices, from pure lack of experience, that no ammount of training can give you.

I guess if any legislation was needed, it would be on a progressive boat size.
 
Geez. No matter for how long I've known it's true, everytime I read that you guys north of the Channel can legally helm big boats with no training, license, and insurance, I can't help thinking that it must be a joke... :rolleyes:
 
MapisM said:
Geez. No matter for how long I've known it's true, everytime I read that you guys north of the Channel can legally helm big boats with no training, license, and insurance, I can't help thinking that it must be a joke... :rolleyes:
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No, it is just a recognition that there is no need for an oppressive legal regime to force people to do what they can do themselves. Our accident rate, despite the odd bump and bang in marinas (as much a consequence of design of berths, coping with wind and tides as poor boathandling) is extremely low as are insurance premiums.

As I said in my earlier post, individual cases make poor law. You need to demonstrate the problem is widespread if you are going to call for global action. The RYA, MCA, RNLI and insurance companies do not support the need for compulsory training. Guess they must know a thing or two about the issue.
 
Did you see the thread about the mobo that hit the rocks by the fort near Bembridge. That's what the rope showing helps to avoid. Probably seemed a little over the top, but the reasons were genuine! :)

You're a quick learner, you shouldn't have many problems
 
Searush said:
“The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.” (Bertrand Russell)
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That is so true:cool: mine you, I've always been a tad confident so best be careful supporting that statement;) so far, my boating experiences have had a steep and in hindsight, somewhat lucky, learning curve:o
 
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