BruceK
Well-Known Member
That is a very real possibility. I had a look at the turbos last year. Visually the blades looked fine. Not the best of tests. I will send them in to a specialist to refurb. It doesnt solve that screech though.
Compressor whine KAD
- Thread starter BruceK
- Start date
That is a very real possibility. I had a look at the turbos last year. Visually the blades looked fine. Not the best of tests. I will send them in to a specialist to refurb. It doesnt solve that screech though.
kashurst
Well-Known Member
don't bother getting them refurbed unless they fit a brand new exhaust housing. Waste of time and money.
You can now get brand new turbos for not much more, good oem and quality copy parts are available too.
I changed mine on KAMD 300 @ 2 years ago. Measured the gap between the exhaust housing and the compressor and it was tiny. Everything looked ok but S/Cs would cut in in heavy seas and rpm would drop, then rpm would recover and S/Cs drop out again. Similar to your video, but without the banshee howl - that's a bit weird. Have you checked belt tension with a torque wrench?
fitted new turbos - difference was astonishing, set the desired rpm - it doesn't change regardless of sea state now.
Both engines now accelerate at exactly the same speed too.
You can now get brand new turbos for not much more, good oem and quality copy parts are available too.
I changed mine on KAMD 300 @ 2 years ago. Measured the gap between the exhaust housing and the compressor and it was tiny. Everything looked ok but S/Cs would cut in in heavy seas and rpm would drop, then rpm would recover and S/Cs drop out again. Similar to your video, but without the banshee howl - that's a bit weird. Have you checked belt tension with a torque wrench?
fitted new turbos - difference was astonishing, set the desired rpm - it doesn't change regardless of sea state now.
Both engines now accelerate at exactly the same speed too.
julians
Well-Known Member
That howling is awful, it can't be normal can it?
You can only just hear the supercharger on my d4, but it's fairly faint and not at all intrusive.
You can only just hear the supercharger on my d4, but it's fairly faint and not at all intrusive.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
As I said the SC s are probably wobbling too much inside from worn bearings and the blades knocking too much into each other .Interesting to take them apart and compare wear facets with a new one .
Yes the refurb of turbos normally a menu ,on the list obviously new bearings at each end of the spindle , a new rotor if the tips are damaged, but as Keith infers if the fins are a poor fit to the inside of the exhaust casting , change that too i understand the casing can be sleeved relined with a stainless steel insert and new rotor to ensure a best fit .
Or theses days just buy aftermarket replacements.
In the automotive world in tuning there’s a trade in fitting larger turbos often with a remap if the engines littered with ECU,s .Even so with analogue engines ( little ECU involvement) a bigger turbos are easy to do .
Perhaps there’s no demand or market ? But it seems to me the KAD series is ripe for a aftermarket improvement form a better brand ( not necessarily bigger ? ) turbo .
Perhaps accepting a bit of lag or fitting sequential turbos if lags a an issue get rid of the SC ,s all together .
I think the guts and top end are strong enough without modding after all I,am not suggesting making a drag engine lifting / stretching the head bolts ,
more like for like or if you wish with a reasonable power say 10-20 % increase .
Having said that a beefed up oil cooler is a must .
Sufficient power increases to put back to factory fresh OEM spec ,or just a touch more pitch on the props etc etc .
Crucially no SC !
Yes the refurb of turbos normally a menu ,on the list obviously new bearings at each end of the spindle , a new rotor if the tips are damaged, but as Keith infers if the fins are a poor fit to the inside of the exhaust casting , change that too i understand the casing can be sleeved relined with a stainless steel insert and new rotor to ensure a best fit .
Or theses days just buy aftermarket replacements.
In the automotive world in tuning there’s a trade in fitting larger turbos often with a remap if the engines littered with ECU,s .Even so with analogue engines ( little ECU involvement) a bigger turbos are easy to do .
Perhaps there’s no demand or market ? But it seems to me the KAD series is ripe for a aftermarket improvement form a better brand ( not necessarily bigger ? ) turbo .
Perhaps accepting a bit of lag or fitting sequential turbos if lags a an issue get rid of the SC ,s all together .
I think the guts and top end are strong enough without modding after all I,am not suggesting making a drag engine lifting / stretching the head bolts ,
more like for like or if you wish with a reasonable power say 10-20 % increase .Having said that a beefed up oil cooler is a must .
Sufficient power increases to put back to factory fresh OEM spec ,or just a touch more pitch on the props etc etc .
Crucially no SC !
Last edited:
kashurst
Well-Known Member
just another thought, have the S/C clutches or S/Cs themselves been changed?
if so have you checked that the S/C belt pulleys are in line with a decent straight edge?
The clutch comes with a set of shims to adjust the alignment. Often not done as it's a faff, but if they are not in line it does accelerate belt wear and make noise.
if so have you checked that the S/C belt pulleys are in line with a decent straight edge?
The clutch comes with a set of shims to adjust the alignment. Often not done as it's a faff, but if they are not in line it does accelerate belt wear and make noise.
BruceK
Well-Known Member
The company I was speaking to supplies the turbo for ~£600 new or reconditioned replacement for ~£250 with your old as exchange. Both Borg Warner which is what OEM is. So getting new is a no brainer if mine are inspected and confirmed to be worn.
That's interesting. I will have to check.
Last edited:
BruceK
Well-Known Member
As I said the SC s are probably wobbling too much inside from worn bearings and the blades knocking too much into each other .Interesting to take them apart and compare wear facets with a new one .
Yes the refurb of turbos normally a menu ,on the list obviously new bearings at each end of the spindle , a new rotor if the tips are damaged, but as Keith infers if the fins are a poor fit to the inside of the exhaust casting , change that too i understand the casing can be sleeved relined with a stainless steel insert and new rotor to ensure a best fit .
Or theses days just buy aftermarket replacements.
In the automotive world in tuning there’s a trade in fitting larger turbos often with a remap if the engines littered with ECU,s .Even so with analogue engines ( little ECU involvement) a bigger turbos are easy to do .
Perhaps there’s no demand or market ? But it seems to me the KAD series is ripe for a aftermarket improvement form a better brand ( not necessarily bigger ? ) turbo .
Perhaps accepting a bit of lag or fitting sequential turbos if lags a an issue get rid of the SC ,s all together .
I think the guts and top end are strong enough without modding after all I,am not suggesting making a drag engine lifting / stretching the head bolts ,
Having said that a beefed up oil cooler is a must .
Sufficient power increases to put back to factory fresh OEM spec ,or just a touch more pitch on the props etc etc .
Crucially no SC !
One is brand new three years ago and still made that noise. As I said previously, it is not a wear issue.
BruceK
Well-Known Member
You guys have got me worried that my SC's are damaged. However when I have gone on youtube and looked for engine tests on early KAD42 and KAD32 engines with the first gen SC they all seem to make the same noise as mine
BruceK
Well-Known Member
where as this one is the only one that sounds different and I could imagine the vanes touching
Mind you it is not connected to the manifold tubing
Mind you it is not connected to the manifold tubing
Last edited:
petem
Well-Known Member
I agree, unless it's fixing to sell, new would be the way to go.
Incidentally, what do they do when they recondition them (do they replace the housing)?
jrudge
Well-Known Member
HAving has the joy of taking Williams turbos to bits in the summer I would check what gets replaced on recon before buying new. Unless the housing is damaged the recon is likely the vanes and bearings and it will be as good as new.
BruceK
Well-Known Member
I have absolutely no idea Pete. But I trust that it would be good. It's their sole business.
BruceK
Well-Known Member
Even buying from Volvo requires me to return my old unit. The replacement I buy is a rebuilt unit.
https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7734180-25-1697.aspx
Mr Googler
Well-Known Member
I have a rebuilt turbo arrived today.
I went for a reman which means they replace the entire CHRA with new from Borg Warner and guaranteed for 2 years. I also bought a new genuine one last year (for the other engine) and the only difference I can see is the exhaust wheel tips aren’t quite as close to the housing as on the new. Makes sense as the housing isn’t new and they media blast them so bound to loose a bit of material inside the housing. It’s still much better than how it looked before!
I’ve done both via this company. I’ve linked to the correct turbo for my Kad42a. Lots of sites say the Borg Warner number for kad42 is 53269886497 however....53269886496 is what the actual turbo plate says so I went with that. Probably the same turbo (the chra ref is same for both turbos)
https://turbo-diesel.co.uk/?s=5326-988-6496&post_type=product&type_aws=true
Dominic at DLH turbo is a nice chap and they are Borg Warner agents.
I went for a reman which means they replace the entire CHRA with new from Borg Warner and guaranteed for 2 years. I also bought a new genuine one last year (for the other engine) and the only difference I can see is the exhaust wheel tips aren’t quite as close to the housing as on the new. Makes sense as the housing isn’t new and they media blast them so bound to loose a bit of material inside the housing. It’s still much better than how it looked before!
I’ve done both via this company. I’ve linked to the correct turbo for my Kad42a. Lots of sites say the Borg Warner number for kad42 is 53269886497 however....53269886496 is what the actual turbo plate says so I went with that. Probably the same turbo (the chra ref is same for both turbos)
https://turbo-diesel.co.uk/?s=5326-988-6496&post_type=product&type_aws=true
Dominic at DLH turbo is a nice chap and they are Borg Warner agents.
Mr Googler
Well-Known Member
https://www.asap-supplies.com/turbo-connection-and-gaskets-for-volvo-penta-engine-22138
Gasket set too. I also have the workshop manual showing the procedure if you need it :encouragement:
Gasket set too. I also have the workshop manual showing the procedure if you need it :encouragement:
julians
Well-Known Member
Just a thought, but if your turbos are worn and are therefore causing the supercharger to cut in to 'backfill' for a loss of boost pressure, at a point much higher up the rev range than the supercharger would normally be expected to work, could the fact that the supercharger is spinning much faster than expected or trying to create an air pressure higher than expected account for the awful noise they are making.
Last edited:
jrudge
Well-Known Member
And they then polish it up and sell it as a new one!
Hope you solve your issue - the noise must drive you nuts. Jimmy the Builder can recommend an immense music installation which is another alternative....
Re boos pressure, mine is EVC A ( 2004 ) and now I have a box to read the engine data I can see turbo pressures. It will also be on Vodia I suspect which is probably worth checking before spending £1200 plus labour, gaskets etc on new turbos.
BruceK
Well-Known Member
That's good info. Yours seem a bit pricey though in comparison to acknowledged / expert competitors.
I can buy new from one at £660 and another at £690 with refurbs from the first for 200 and the latter for worst case a comparable 495 but expected ~280 both include to and from courier service.
I will bite the bullet and send mine in to be verified / tested and refurbed or replaced according to their recommendations.
All this is slightly off topic as yes they might stop the superchargers from hunting at mid revs but really what I want to do most is muffle the noise. I may have to buy the silencer used on the KAD44/300, but they are horrendously expensive and I'll settle for a marked noise reduction rather than whisper silent.
edit
part 20 and of course the whole train changes with it up to the turbo charger
I can buy new from one at £660 and another at £690 with refurbs from the first for 200 and the latter for worst case a comparable 495 but expected ~280 both include to and from courier service.
I will bite the bullet and send mine in to be verified / tested and refurbed or replaced according to their recommendations.
All this is slightly off topic as yes they might stop the superchargers from hunting at mid revs but really what I want to do most is muffle the noise. I may have to buy the silencer used on the KAD44/300, but they are horrendously expensive and I'll settle for a marked noise reduction rather than whisper silent.
edit
part 20 and of course the whole train changes with it up to the turbo charger
Last edited:
BruceK
Well-Known Member
These two posts only showed up now....?
Quite likely yes. Although when they kick in at low revs the growl is much more pronounced as per 3rd vid.
Thank you. Mine has no ECU and no instrumentation apart from Temp, Oil pressure, Tach and associated alarms. She's an old boat with these being early 90's engines. I could do a boost check but the cost of getting an engineer out for a morning to do the checks when under load would likely cost as much if not more than a new unit. Easier by far and cheaper to boot to whip them off and send in to the specialists and get their verdict. If they can meet or exceed OEM spec as promised then refurb. If not just buy new. They will be quite old now and I imagine are probably due for some TLC or replacement. I feel my turbos kick in just after 3k rev but what I am hearing is they should be coming in much earlier so it's a pretty safe bet they are worn despit visual checks and play looking good as Kashurst found himself.
Quite likely yes. Although when they kick in at low revs the growl is much more pronounced as per 3rd vid.
Thank you. Mine has no ECU and no instrumentation apart from Temp, Oil pressure, Tach and associated alarms. She's an old boat with these being early 90's engines. I could do a boost check but the cost of getting an engineer out for a morning to do the checks when under load would likely cost as much if not more than a new unit. Easier by far and cheaper to boot to whip them off and send in to the specialists and get their verdict. If they can meet or exceed OEM spec as promised then refurb. If not just buy new. They will be quite old now and I imagine are probably due for some TLC or replacement. I feel my turbos kick in just after 3k rev but what I am hearing is they should be coming in much earlier so it's a pretty safe bet they are worn despit visual checks and play looking good as Kashurst found himself.
Assassin
Well-Known Member
Bruce, I am going to throw a curved ball here so don't be alarmed.
Are either of your pulleys laminated, by laminated I mean are they two piece units with a metalastic type bond between them as many pulleys fitted to these engines were, depending on application and they are readily and easily interchangeable between engine types. Metalastic bonded units were more commonly fitted to applications requiring a smoother running engine and more vibration suppression.
Mitsubishi engines commonly have them fitted and three of them will fit your engines and I have seen them fitted to other engines.
If the lamination bond breaks the inner piece runs at engine speed and so does the outer piece, once a load is applied then the outer piece slips and causes very similar squealing.
You need to run the engine at idle and check for visible run out and if none is seen you can check quickly and easily by putting a chalk line across the pulley with a straight edge and run the engine for a short period and check the lines are still in alignment, you can also place a piece of plasticine or similar between the timing cover and rear of the pulley and run the engine and see if there is a large gap between the two as a delaminating pulley outer rocks back towards the engine, cheap check before spending a lot of money.
Are either of your pulleys laminated, by laminated I mean are they two piece units with a metalastic type bond between them as many pulleys fitted to these engines were, depending on application and they are readily and easily interchangeable between engine types. Metalastic bonded units were more commonly fitted to applications requiring a smoother running engine and more vibration suppression.
Mitsubishi engines commonly have them fitted and three of them will fit your engines and I have seen them fitted to other engines.
If the lamination bond breaks the inner piece runs at engine speed and so does the outer piece, once a load is applied then the outer piece slips and causes very similar squealing.
You need to run the engine at idle and check for visible run out and if none is seen you can check quickly and easily by putting a chalk line across the pulley with a straight edge and run the engine for a short period and check the lines are still in alignment, you can also place a piece of plasticine or similar between the timing cover and rear of the pulley and run the engine and see if there is a large gap between the two as a delaminating pulley outer rocks back towards the engine, cheap check before spending a lot of money.