Competent crew or straight to day skipper?

dylanwinter said:
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A very good analogy, do more badges make better scouts or just better at needlework
 
If you have your own boat that you sail regularly, you don't need to do a Comp Crew course. However it's worth getting the RYA Comp Crew course notes book to ensure you know the terminology you'll come across, and also what will be expected in terms of safe ways of using winches, appropriate knots etc. The course notes book is code CCPCN and you can get it from Amazon.

We get quite a few people in your situation. From my experience, I'd suggest you go for Day Skipper Practical. Many self-taught sailors underestimate the level required for Coastal Skipper and it's usually better to aim for DS and pass it fairly easily than to attempt CS and possibly not pass.

We no longer accept anyone directly for Coastal who hasn't already done a Day Skipper course as we've found they are rarely up to the standard required in either theory or practical skills. We sometimes take people and mark them as Day / Coastal Skipper and let their instructor advise them at the end of the first couple of days as to which level they should aim for. If you can find a school that will do this that's ideal but it isn't always possible due to restrictions on being able to mix DS and CS candidates.

If your navigation is pretty good, you may not need to do a Shorebased course but again it's worth getting hold of a couple of good books. I suggest Tom Cunliffes Complete Day Skipper and there's a newish RYA book called Yacht Sailing Techniques that's good.

I think a key thing is what you hope to achieve from the training. If you want to become more skilled in basic sailing and boat-handling techniques and ensure you know how to keep you and your crew safe, then DS is for you.

Once you are confident with all the basics and with all safety aspects you may want more training in order to be better able to tackle longer passages in more difficult conditions, perhaps sailing into different time-zones. You may also want more training in being able to carry out manoeuvres under sail rather than engine. Coastal is what you need to improve your skills. You'll probably learn as much on a good coastal course as you would in a couple of years sailing yourself.
 
Melody said:
If your navigation is pretty good, you may not need to do a Shorebased course but again it's worth getting hold of a couple of good books. I suggest Tom Cunliffes Complete Day Skipper and there's a newish RYA book called Yacht Sailing Techniques that's good.
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Tim Bartlett does some good books too. How we miss him now he's not here any more.
 
If you can walk and chew gum, you've already passed competent crew.

For the sake of your dosh and actually learning and/or being usefully qualified, go for the Day Skipper or above.

There used to be very useful night schools where one could do the theory bit - and meet like minded people - but that needs checking as it seems the tories have scrapped the scheme.
 
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Melody said:
If you have your own boat that you sail regularly, you don't need to do a Comp Crew course. However it's worth getting the RYA Comp Crew course notes book to ensure you know the terminology you'll come across, and also what will be expected in terms of safe ways of using winches, appropriate knots etc. The course notes book is code CCPCN and you can get it from Amazon.

We get quite a few people in your situation. From my experience, I'd suggest you go for Day Skipper Practical. Many self-taught sailors underestimate the level required for Coastal Skipper and it's usually better to aim for DS and pass it fairly easily than to attempt CS and possibly not pass.

We no longer accept anyone directly for Coastal who hasn't already done a Day Skipper course as we've found they are rarely up to the standard required in either theory or practical skills. We sometimes take people and mark them as Day / Coastal Skipper and let their instructor advise them at the end of the first couple of days as to which level they should aim for. If you can find a school that will do this that's ideal but it isn't always possible due to restrictions on being able to mix DS and CS candidates.

If your navigation is pretty good, you may not need to do a Shorebased course but again it's worth getting hold of a couple of good books. I suggest Tom Cunliffes Complete Day Skipper and there's a newish RYA book called Yacht Sailing Techniques that's good.

I think a key thing is what you hope to achieve from the training. If you want to become more skilled in basic sailing and boat-handling techniques and ensure you know how to keep you and your crew safe, then DS is for you.

Once you are confident with all the basics and with all safety aspects you may want more training in order to be better able to tackle longer passages in more difficult conditions, perhaps sailing into different time-zones. You may also want more training in being able to carry out manoeuvres under sail rather than engine. Coastal is what you need to improve your skills. You'll probably learn as much on a good coastal course as you would in a couple of years sailing yourself.
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I have instructed hundreds of students at all the levels.
Often having guys, who have sailed for years, but still have competency problems in even relatively simple tasks, including those who think they are up to YM standard. Making sure YM's have actually done DS, should be mandatory.
It never ceases to amaze me, how many 'experts' who have never done any of these courses, feel able to judge/advise!
 
alant said:
Try reading what you posted!

"Prior to the course your navigation skills should be at the standard of the Coastal Skipper/Yachtmaster Offshore shorebased course."
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That's right,shorebased theory, which anyone can do and pass, or fail, without leaving the classroom. And your skills need to be "at the standard" so shore-based theory is not actually compulsory for Ocean at all, classroom or certificate.

However to be awarded the YM Ocean Certificate, which is passed or failed by one-on-one oral exam, plus written evidence of sight reductions on passage etc, you need an YM Offshore Practical Certificate these days I'm fairly sure.
 
jerrytug said:
That's right,shorebased theory, which anyone can do and pass, or fail, without leaving the classroom. And your skills need to be "at the standard" so shore-based theory is not actually compulsory for Ocean at all, classroom or certificate.

However to be awarded the YM Ocean Certificate, which is passed or failed by one-on-one oral exam, plus written evidence of sight reductions on passage etc, you need an YM Offshore Practical Certificate these days I'm fairly sure.
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So how would you suggest anyone can get onto an Ocean Course, without a convincing bit of paper indicating YM level?
Check most schools, they wouldn't let you on one.
I teach the course & have only let 2 on without YM certs, one was an airline pilot still doing is YM & tother was a guy, who had sailed solo around the world several times using his sextant so had definitely demonstrated his skills.
Trust me pls, when I state that courses are inundated by people claiming some level of competence, but in reality have none (I've read the course work over my GF's shoulder when she was studying). The time taken up, a disadvantage to other students, in having to explain/re-explain is not on. On a 40 hr course, you do not have the luxury of spare time.

You need the theory ticket, otherwise the practical examiner will set an exam for you, doing it in front of him.
 
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Something strange I've discovered is that, when it comes to sailing (and computing is the same) students' skills are often in inverse proportion to what they think they are ...

We get Day Skipper candidates who are very modest about their experience but who breeze through the course. On the other hand we've had people who think they should be able to do a Yachtmaster course who struggle to even pass Day Skipper.
 
Melody said:
We no longer accept anyone directly for Coastal who hasn't already done a Day Skipper course as we've found they are rarely up to the standard required in either theory or practical skills.
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I'm surprised at that. Although I've done the courses and exams to YM Offshore, I'm very conscious there are thousands of sailors out there who have far more experience and miles including circumnavigations, who have forgotten more than I will ever learn but just haven't bothered getting the certificates. If they're willing to pay good money for the Coastal, why expect them to "buy" another course?
 
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