Stemar
Well-Known Member
So why are some posters adamant that the OP should be doing CC before DS?
Competent Crew or Dayskipper certs, how different are they?
- Thread starter yesCDWplease
- Start date
lw395
Well-Known Member
I think the OP should get (approximately) the required pre-requisite experience before doing the course.
Comp crew is but one way of doing that.
I say approximately because personally I'd say his mobo experience has some value on a sailing boat.
On a skipper course, it's not really fair to the other candidates if your skills are significantly less than what should be expected. The person who is skipper at the time should be able to expect the other DS candidates to have something like the prerequisite experience.
Also I think one would get more out of a DS course having previously had a little experience, with time to let it sink in, reflect on it and read another book or two.
But I think quite a few people get by with bluffing their way into a course with sketchy experience, getting the bit of paper and learning as they go. Possibly it all comes out the same 2 years down the line?
scotty123
Well-Known Member
A CC course is a formalised way of getting experience/skills, would you prefer your family member to learn to drive with Uncle Joe, or a proper driving school?
Uncle Joe, might have been driving for 40 years, but is he really aware of current rules/conditions, when he simply drives a few miles on familiar roads to his local Lidl?
Stemar
Well-Known Member
I don't think you can compare learning to pass a driving test to learning to sail. The driving test is a particular set of hoops you have to jump through. DS, as I remember it - it was a while ago, was about the instructor being able to answer "Yes" to the question, "Is this person competent to take a yacht out during the day in good weather"
As for Uncle Joe, he may well be a good person to teach car control, reading the road and how to anticipate situations - general driving. Then, take a few professional lessons to cover the hoops.
As for Uncle Joe, he may well be a good person to teach car control, reading the road and how to anticipate situations - general driving. Then, take a few professional lessons to cover the hoops.
scotty123
Well-Known Member
"he may well be", really, have you seen how he drives?
The point is, no-one has checked Uncle Joe's health or driving capabilty, since he passed his driving test at age 17, whilst a professional driving instructor has been assessed. Likewise a sailing school instructor.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Not really a sensible comparison.
You cannot do everything by simply stepping along the series of RYA courses, the courses do not add up to enough sea time to qualify you for the next step.
Hence the Zero to Hero operations put in extra 'milebuilding experience', kerchinggg.
Otherwise, you have to get out there and do some sailing outside of courses.
The CC course teaches someone who's never been on a boat before a reasonable grounding in being useful and safe on a boat. It does not teach them to be helmsman as such. The clue is in the name competent 'crew'.
Here is what the RYA says:
| Course content | Knowledge of sea terms and parts of a boat, her rigging and sails, sail handling, ropework, fire precautions and fighting, personal safety equipment, man overboard, emergency equipment, meteorology, seasickness, helmsmanship, general duties, manners and customs, rules of the road, dinghies |
| Ability after the course | Able to steer, handle sails, keep a lookout, row a dinghy and assist in all the day to day routines |
Which is a huge overlap with the OP's prior knowledge and very little about crossing over from power to sail.
I think you could come out of a CC course and not be able to actually sail a boat (although you would be in a good position to start learning).
Helmsmanship and sail handling are the only actual 'sailing', and they are one small fraction of the syllabus. Note: Sail handling, not sail trim or sail setting.
Note:
I am not knocking comp crew, it is great, if you are starting from scratch, like it is advertised for.
The RYA do not say it is everything you need before doing dazed kipper. Although it could be, for some people, if you got the right group and it panned out that way. For instance back when I did my YM prep week, it was a mixed boat and the lady doing CC got to do plenty of helming while the erstwhile skippers and masters did the navigation, pilotage and hastily revised all the theory they'd forgotten. 5 comp crew candidates on a boat and you're getting less than a day helming. And a fair slice of that could be under motor.
scotty123
Well-Known Member
IMO, it is a sensible comparison.
Read the cC syllabus, does it actually say you should be able to "sail a boat"?
lw395
Well-Known Member
The CC syllabus assumes no prior knowledge.
The Dazed Kipper syllabus is not specific about ability to sail, but suggests "Before this course, if you are not sure that your sailing is up to speed, a good way to learn is on an RYA Level 2 dinghy course. This will teach you to sail around a course and control the boat's speed. "
It's not explicit that you will get that from a Comp crew course.
Neither is it explicit you will get the night hours or the mileage.
Nowhere does it say, 'once you've done this, you are ready for the DS course'. You might be, you might not be.
Seems to me you have a West London view of things, those of us who live on the coast possibly have a different outlook.
scotty123
Well-Known Member
For someone who "lives on the coast", you know little about RYA courses.
Competent Crew Syllabus
The Competent Crew course introduces the complete beginner to cruising and teaches personal safety, seamanship and helmsmanship to the level required to be a useful member of crew of a cruising yacht.
1. Knowledge of sea terms and parts of a boat, her rigging and sails
- Sufficient knowledge to understand orders given concerning the sailing and day to day running of the boat.
- Bending on, setting, reefing and handling of sails
- Use of sheets and halyards and their associated winches
- Handling ropes, including coiling, stowing, securing to cleats and single and double bollards
- Handling warps
- Ability to tie the following knots and to know their correct use: figure-of-eight, clove hitch, rolling hitch, bowline, round turn and two half hitches, single and double sheet bend, reef knot
Awareness of the hazards of fire and the precautions necessary to prevent fireb. Knowledge of the action to be taken in the event of fire
5. Personal safety equipment
- Understands and complies with rules for the wearing of safety harnesses, lifejackets and personal buoyancy aids
- Understands the action to be taken to recover a man overboard
- Can operate distress flares and knows when they should be used
- Understands how to launch and board a liferaft
- Understands accepted practice with regard to: use of burgees and ensigns, prevention of unnecessary noise or disturbance in harbour including courtesies to other craft berthed
- Aware of the responsibility of yacht skippers to protect the environment
- Is able to keep and efficient lookout at sea
- Understands and complies with the loading rulesb.
- Is able to handle a dinghy under oars
- Awareness of forecasting services and knowledge of the Beaufort scale
- Working efficiency is unaffected/partially affected/severely affected by seasickness
- Understands the basic principles of sailing and can steer and trim sails on all points of sailing
- Can steer a compass course, under sail and power
- Has carried out general duties satisfactorily on deck and below decks in connection with the daily routine of the vessel
Day Skipper -
What is an RYA Day Skipper and how do I become one? | Inbrief | e-newsletters | News & Events | RYA - Royal Yachting Association
Pre-course experience, 5 days, 100Nm, 4 night hours onboard a sailing yacht.
Basic navigation & helmsmanship.
Recommended you do a DS Theory course beforehand.
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Uricanejack
Well-Known Member
I wonder about the same question.
Perhaps because it’s what they did and it worked well for them. Or for those who argue just as passionately for a dingy course. It was what they did and it worked well for them.
The OP has already learned how to Skipper a boat. He just needs to learn how to sail a boat. And would like to get a recognized certificate. Which should be well within his capabilities.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
Well, the thread's run the usual course of a question, some answers which, as usual, demonstrate opposite viewpoints, then a knock down drag out between the protagonists of those viewpoints.
yesCDWplease can now make up his mind whether he thinks he can go straight to DS or needs to do CC first, but he's clearly going to drown himself, his crew and half the crew on the boats for a mile around if he does. Or maybe not...
yesCDWplease can now make up his mind whether he thinks he can go straight to DS or needs to do CC first, but he's clearly going to drown himself, his crew and half the crew on the boats for a mile around if he does. Or maybe not...
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Says it all.
