Competent Crew or Dayskipper certs, how different are they?

[yesCDWplease]

I'm a beginner in this realm, so I'm sure there will be some silly questions....

A bit of background, I'm a mobo rental ditchrcawler on the Shannon system a few times a year for about five years now. But I want to be able charter a sailboat and SWIMBO is fully supportive in this endeavour.

To do that I'll need my Dayskipper.

My strengths are that I'd say my pilotage in close quarters is okay on account of being happy aft mooring a single engine 42' gin palace without bow thruster. Our lakes, while not massive do require a bit of transiting and way point searching. There is a regular crew, but they're a bit too busy with family stuff to ask them to get involved in this endeavour.

My conundrum is that a lot of CC seems really obvious. But I do need to learn how to sail at the same time. The day skipper syllabus seems pretty manageable, a lot of it just makes common sense. I'm just getting onto tide tables and navigation with a real chart but it is clicking in the noggin.

My question basically is, could I book my five days, aim for Dayskipper, but if I miss get my Competent Crew?
,

 

[Uricanejack]

Think positively, you won’t miss it.
You are already capable of being a crew. On a PB.

 

[scotty123]

I'm a beginner in this realm, so I'm sure there will be some silly questions....

A bit of background, I'm a mobo rental ditchrcawler on the Shannon system a few times a year for about five years now. But I want to be able charter a sailboat and SWIMBO is fully supportive in this endeavour.

To do that I'll need my Dayskipper.

My strengths are that I'd say my pilotage in close quarters is okay on account of being happy aft mooring a single engine 42' gin palace without bow thruster. Our lakes, while not massive do require a bit of transiting and way point searching. There is a regular crew, but they're a bit too busy with family stuff to ask them to get involved in this endeavour.

My conundrum is that a lot of CC seems really obvious. But I do need to learn how to sail at the same time. The day skipper syllabus seems pretty manageable, a lot of it just makes common sense. I'm just getting onto tide tables and navigation with a real chart but it is clicking in the noggin.

My question basically is, could I book my five days, aim for Dayskipper, but if I miss get my Competent Crew?
,

Comp crew, means you know which end of the boat is the front end, whilst Day Skipper means you might know how to make that front end go where you want it to.

 

[ross84]

I did CC and DS - I probably could have done DS straight off and my sailing ability was equal to or maybe greater than some of the other students who passed their DS. A week after, the instructor said he would have passed me. I was, however, glad to have another week tbh. I was with two girls doing their CC and so basically got to act as skipper most of the week. I still don't feel anywhere near qualified/experienced to sail a boat around on my own. I think CC is good if you don't know how to tie a bowline or know the kicker from a jammer, but if you know all this and are confident with manuerving, then go for the DS.

 

[Stemar]

I signed up for CC as I'd no experience apart from a few outings crewing a sailing dinghy 30 years before, though I'd done met and nav as part of a flying scholarship in the ATC many years before. There were two comp crews and two coastal skippers plus the instructor. When I saw what the CS people were doing that I wasn't, I asked if I could go for DS. The instructor was dubious, but said yes. At the end of the course, the only reason I didn't get as CS rather than DS was because I wouldn't lie about my experience.

Bone up on the theory - secondary ports, how currents affect your course, buoys, lights and shapes, etc and you'll do fine.

 

[LadyInBed]

If you are a total novice to Rag and Stick sailing I would suggest that you do a dinghy sailing course. It will teach you how to use the wind and the basics of sailing.
This download http://montymariner.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Setting-Sail.pdf would be a starter.
Are there any coastal sailing clubs in your area, if so, do one of the courses you enquired about then contact a club and ask them if anyone is looking for novice crew.
This online Nav course is also a good starter Advanced navigation courses - sailing schools Greece and the Greek islands
Good luck.

 

[scotty123]

If you are a total novice to Rag and Stick sailing I would suggest that you do a dinghy sailing course. It will teach you how to use the wind and the basics of sailing.
This download http://montymariner.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Setting-Sail.pdf would be a starter.
Are there any coastal sailing clubs in your area, if so, do one of the courses you enquired about then contact a club and ask them if anyone is looking for novice crew.
This online Nav course is also a good starter Advanced navigation courses - sailing schools Greece and the Greek islands
Good luck.

People these days, don't want to go that ancient trad route, they see a big boat, want a big boat, want a DS so they can qualify to hire one in Greece.
Going the sailing dinghy route is too slow, should start when a kid.

 

[Ningaloo]

I regularly advise my crew to skip Competent Crew. It's only purpose is to generate income for sailing schools. Anyone who can get onto a boat with an understanding skipper (like me ?) will learn enough in a weekend.
I do recommend getting the excellent RYA support booklets (mine are now almost 30 years old and still useful).

 

[scotty123]

I regularly advise my crew to skip Competent Crew. It's only purpose is to generate income for sailing schools. Anyone who can get onto a boat with an understanding skipper (like me ?) will learn enough in a weekend.
I do recommend getting the excellent RYA support booklets (mine are now almost 30 years old and still useful).

Rubbish, many people have never been on a yacht in their lives, going direct to DS would not help them.
Comp crew is not designed for people with some experience

 

[Ningaloo]

Rubbish, many people have never been on a yacht in their lives, going direct to DS would not help them.
Comp crew is not designed for people with some experience

My point is that the (competent crew) experience can be gained at no cost over a weekend with appropriate one to one tuition from an experienced skipper.
And there are plenty of skippers like me looking for crew and willing to teach.
I have taken enthusiastic but inexperienced crew across Lyme Bay, across the channel and even across the North Sea. Before a longer passage like these we usually start with at least one short day sail to check they aren't going to get seasick.

And I'd be happy to write a reference for anyone who has 50+ Nm with me certifying that they meet CC standards if the sailing schools require it.

 

[scotty123]

My point is that the (competent crew) experience can be gained at no cost over a weekend with appropriate one to one tuition from an experienced skipper.
And there are plenty of skippers like me looking for crew and willing to teach.
I have taken enthusiastic but inexperienced crew across Lyme Bay, across the channel and even across the North Sea. Before a longer passage like these we usually start with at least one short day sail to check they aren't going to get seasick.

And I'd be happy to write a reference for anyone who has 50+ Nm with me certifying that they meet CC standards if the sailing schools require it.

Have you actually checked the CC syllabus?

 

[capnsensible]

Day Skipper | Sail Cruising | Courses | Learning | Courses & Training | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

Here you will get as many opinions as there are ants. As an alternative, the RYA guide above tells you all you need to know.

 

[Ningaloo]

As a final comment on this, I have had one recently qualified (UKSA) Day Skipper who didn't come anywhere near my expectations of competent crew.
It was clear that the tutor had been unable to give this candidate the additional time she needed due to the pressure of keeping the other 6 students happy.
I was able to pursuade her not to return to UKSA for Coastal Skipper until she had more experience and better understanding of Day Skipper. (We did a trip from Gosport to St Vaast with overnight return together)

 

[philld]

I think I'd do the Day Skipper theory over the winter months first. Then I'd book the Day Skipper practical afterwards as a holiday. You'd want to do it somewhere tidal, in other words not the Med, but I believe that courses run from Gibraltar count as tidal.

 

[capnsensible]

As a final comment on this, I have had one recently qualified (UKSA) Day Skipper who didn't come anywhere near my expectations of competent crew.
It was clear that the tutor had been unable to give this candidate the additional time she needed due to the pressure of keeping the other 6 students happy.
I was able to pursuade her not to return to UKSA for Coastal Skipper until she had more experience and better understanding of Day Skipper. (We did a trip from Gosport to St Vaast with overnight return together)

You do realise that the maximum number of students on a course run by a Recognised Training Centre is 5, not 7?

 

[mainsail1]

I have always thought that far too many people try to skip the Competent Crew Course because they think they know it all. Most of them would be better off walking before they try to run. If you have a good instructor the Competent Crew course is a fantastic opportunity for you to build on any experience you have and maybe realise that there is more to learn than a few knots and where the bow is. I have formed the view over the years that the RYA should insist that everyone has to go through the courses in order from start to finish but they don't see it that way ,and I can tell you, as a now retired Instructor it was such a bore trying to persuade ignorant and often over confident muppets to start at CC.

 

[LadyInBed]

The OP does have experience of manoeuvring a boat under engine, albeit a mobo! So that would indicate he can put out fenders and mooring lines and tie up.
I could be wrong, but the OP can verify.

 

[lw395]

I don't think the RYA courses are actually great ways of learning to sail.
Comp crew is mostly about knowing your way around a boat and performing tasks as directed by the skipper.
The skipper courses are mainly about 'running the boat'. Navigation, pilotage, crew management, planning. Catering!
Actual hands on the sheets and tiller is but a small part of it. And the comp crew may get as much time steering and setting sails as the 'skippers'.

It's probably changed a bit since I did any courses, but in terms of actually handling boats the differences were 'skippers' had to be able to helm the yacht at close quarters, e.g. pontoon bashing, while comp crew was required to be able to row the tender, which 'officers' i.e. Dazed Kippers and above, were exempt from?

In the OP's position, I might suggest getting a day or two instruction on a small two/three person boat, even if it doesn't get a certificate. You get much faster feedback in a smaller boat. Then try to get some informal crewing hours, then go for DS. I think you will get far more from the skippers' course if you've already grasped the basics of steering and sheeting.

Talk to a few schools and see what they can offer.

 

[philld]

I don't think the RYA courses are actually great ways of learning to sail.

The OP wanted to charter a sail boat. If I remember correctly, to do that you need some sort of qualification, and a Day Skipper certificate meets the minimum requirement.

 

[capnsensible]

Thing is, not many people have access to boats easily. Sure plenty on this forum do, but for a lot, thousands, that have an interest, a sailing school is their only chance to getting afloat.

And that means a structured progression with terms of reference, pro instructors, insurance, travel protection, feedback and complaints procedures on inspected yachts.

It doesnt suit everyone, plus of course getting experience on others boats (free!!!) is a key pert of gaining experience.

Clearly, if no one was interested in formal training, there wouldnt be Recognised Training Centres.