compare & contrast ...

[ParaHandy]

... two letters each from masters of merchant ships (one retired) about the dangers to leisure users in the channel

one confirms compliance with rules 6 (safe speed) & 18 (conduct in reduced visibility) of the col regs the other that it is anathema to most masters to slow down in fog ...

one avers that he will try to avoid (leisure boats) the other, don't be so sure as most deck officers come from the far east with their different culture and attitudes to "rich folk" in their way ...

both masters are (or claim to be) very experienced. the second view in each statement comes from the retired officer.

whom do you believe?

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[Twister_Ken]

Obviously...

....one of the above has retired from the merchant marine to take up a post as a sales manager for a small boat radar distributor, th eother for a radar reflector manufacturer.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: cynic...

they both now work for a salvage cpy .... and are flogging slightly "shop soiled" bmw and volvos ...

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[brianhumber]

Nothings changed then since I first went to sea in the early 70s.
I remember being on the bridge approaching Ushant during Fasnet 79 and listening to the carnage. The Old Man was up and turned around and said something like bloody idiots deserve all that nature is giving them.
Other Old Men would stop in mid ocean to hand out fresh water to small natives in open fishing boats or to double check a yacht was not in trouble

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[ParaHandy]

hmmm .. i'm more inclined to believe the retired one for my 2p worth ...

listened at the w/e to the CG trying to get someone to confirm whether the central channel buoy, EC2, was lit. Conversation with a chinese deck officer on board merchant ship went something like this:
CG: is it lit?
Chinaman: oh yes, working! can see racon!
CG: but is the light lit?
Chinaman: oh yes, working, can see on radar
CG: no ... but is the LIGHT ON?
Chinaman: no can see



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[Guest]

Having been there and got the T Shirt

a) The nationality of the Officer on watch does not automatically qualify them for lower or higher status. In fact I can honestly state that I have been with some bloody awful Brit officers.
b) The ships are under 'unofficial' commercial pressure to maintain eta to next port etc. In the event of Master slowing down, no-one will officially argue with him, except some owners who should know better ..... but if he does not slow and hits something - all hell opens up .... So the decision to slow or not to slow is a difficult one.
c) Ships and leisure boats ....... 1/2 mile to a yacht is close but not so bad ...... to a ship its SUICIDE ...... The view from the average ship is poor for close ahead .... but of course at distnace the yachts disapears into the waves etc.

OK lets get onto the subject of nationality ..... having a) been commanding / senior to many different, then running an Inspection Company that boards and works with them still ...... Most European Masters / Officers will make a decision based on observation and prudence...... but limited or affected by Masters / Owners instructions. Many Asian / 3rd world officers and Masters are under direct orders from ship-owners to refer all back to them .... taking away the 'on-board' decision. S it is not so much the person on the vessel, it is the style of management of the company that often affects the outcome of matters on the high seas and in port. If the guy is not allowed to act on his own in port etc. then it affects all other matters he deals with.

Many are quick to condemn Flag of Convenience and other nationality's etc. That is sad - because it paints a bad picture over generally OK ships and crews. My worst ships were under Brit flag, my best under FOC. Yes there are bad ones ..... law of averages says that if you have the largest fleets and number of vessels - you will a) have more incidents, b) have more bad ones etc.

the Brit Merch. has near disaperaed from the oceans - very sad but inevitable given the Colonial / Corporate Style of management.

Anyway ..... the best advise is to keep clear .... whatever the vessel / flag etc. >>>>>

Message on His Gravestone : He held on to his Collision Regulations Rights to the end ......




<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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[ParaHandy]

Re: Having been there and got the T Shirt

the letter promoting the status quo was from a master of a P&O Nedlloyd large container ship published in YM and the retired master's letter was in All-At-Sea and both appeared simultaneously.

I passed an identical P&O Nedlloyd ship in southampton water last week and i can only say that the picture in YM was of a Nedlloyd vessel half loaded ..

each master did indeed implore leisure users not to sail without radar. radar on a reasonably stable 100,000 ton platform is one thing but a yacht radar is both inefficient (by comparison) and subject to considerable movement in a sea which renders observations at longer range dubious.

The probability of collision ratchets up considerably if the ship maintains her usual 25kn in poor visibility which from my own, limited, observations appears to be the case ... there seems to be a dangerous and inappropriate assumption by merchant shipping that you shouldn't be in the channel without radar because if you have, everything is fine .... it's not ....

crossing the channel might be best described "do you feel lucky, punk, well do you?"

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[Guest]

If you read carefully ...

The Collision Regs actually accept the fact that vessels will proceed at possibly different speeds epending on use of Radar !! Incredible but true.

It states clearly, words I cannot remember exact ... but on lines of : Vessels navigating with radar in reduced visibility may consider proceed at higher speed than those without consider prudent .....

Basically if you are in channel in reduced viz and around you are Merch ...... forgive me as I know it is often not the fault of the yachtie or ship ... but it really is a Russian Roulette game then .... Good viz and all can do their bit ....

Container boats are on schedules and owners are upset when ship doesn't arrive on time as the cargo owners then give gip to the ship owner etc.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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[ParaHandy]

Re: If you read carefully ...

in all your time as officer etc did a yacht ever call you on vhf to ask if they can be seen by your ship's radar? would a call on ch16 (ch13 seems nobody listens) be responded to, do you think?

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[peterb]

Re: If you read carefully ...

I can't find any such rule in my copy of Colregs. Rule 6, Safe Speed, talks about the factors to be taken into account in deciding on a safe speed, with Rule 6(b) covering factors specific to radar-equipped ships. Rule 19, Conduct of Vessels in Restricted Visibility, says (Rule 19(b)) that "every vessel shall proceed at a safe speed adapted to the prevailing circumstances ....". I suppose that you could say that radar was part of the prevail;ing circumstances, and that in considering the circumstances you came to the conclusion that radar allowed the ship to make a higher speed. But this would be your decision; don't try to put the responsibility onto Colregs.

Of course, if you can give chapter and verse otherwise, I'd love to hear it.

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