Commands for going about.

Which is precisely the reason I didn't vote. The poll was flawed in that it tended to exclude voting by 'the three call' contingent. Not that I really give a hoot what anyone else does or believe that there is a right or wrong way. On a 54 foot boat with a huge genoa and big and very powerful electric winches being operated by relatively novice crews members, I consider three calls to be a good way to help everyone keep their digits attached to their sweaty little paws. When the Mrs and I sail together, we often tack without a word being spoken. It's horses for courses, not a one size fits all issue.
 
lotusman said:
In a more powerful and possibly more complex yacht with larger crew then I, and many others posting here would use 'helms a lee' followed by 'lee oh'. Again, the associated actions having been briefed not assumed.

The poll did not allow for this option.
Click to expand...

Obviously not, because all RYA instructors are idiots and the RYA itself is a tool of Satan. Surely you have been posting on here long enough to realise that?

Or could it just be that the OP is the sort of self-important pedant most of us dread finding ourselves on a boat with?


- W
 
webcraft said:
Obviously not, because all RYA instructors are idiots and the RYA itself is a tool of Satan. Surely you have been posting on here long enough to realise that?

Or could it just be that the OP is the sort of self-important pedant most of us dread finding ourselves on a boat with?

- W
Click to expand...

All I have suggested is that:
1) There is significant evidence and views that "Lee Ho" was originally a helm order , there is significant support for this.
2) The need for a 2 stage tack IMHO is questionable.
3) If there is an insistence to use a 3 stage approach with a specified instruction it should not be the same as is use by many other people for a different instruction (see poll).

To be honest the arrogant over whelming manner in which a hand full of people on this thread have over ruled what appears to a majority of peoples (see poll), certainly has not go anyway to enamour me (and possibly others) to your methods or sailing with them.

For all you dread finding yourself on a boat with me, is not my concern. Having sailed boats of various sizes around the UK I Europe, I can think of few boats that have not invited me back.

Happy Sailing :D
 
webcraft said:
It has already been explained that your poll was severely flawed so most people did not vote in it.

- W
Click to expand...

Well start one that's not flawed then...

Lies, Dam Lies and statistics:
320 People have posted in Boat pics thread,
123 People have posted in Ronca Thread,

At this point 77 people have posted on this thread

80 People voted in the pole...
 
Last edited:
onesea said:
Lies, Dam Lies and statistics:
Click to expand...

Yes indeed. More than 99.999% of the human population have more legs than the average human

If 10% of road accidents involve drunk drivers it proves that it's safer to drive drunk than drive sober because you've only got a 1 in 10 chance of having an accident

There are three sorts of polls:

1. Those designed to elicit information and generate knowledge
2. Those designed to give an outcome that demonstrates support for a thesis
3. Badly thought out polls that do neither of the above.

Your poll is not part of 1.

The thesis of your poll is not stated in your introductory original post and is not self evident, so it's difficult to see how it fits 2.

Your poll did confirm that people have different views on the meaning of words. Something that those you call arrogant appreciate and understand and therefore seek resolution and understanding in a crew brief so that confusion is cleared up in discussion before it occurs in action.

I accept I am following the well worn path of questioning the design of the poll because I don't like the conclusion

The poll thread has 1534 views, 48 posts, 80 voters. Don't know how many posters and am not speculating on whether that is relevent.

This command thread has 8502 views, 267 posts and apparently 77 posters.

It may be possible to assert validity based on weight of numbers but I wouldn't attempt it

To return to the subject of the op of this thread which asked what's the norm:

The poll thread offers two options regarding the meaning of a phrase that it seems to be agreed (eccentricities of spelling and pronunciation excepted) is used as part of the norm where either a two or three stage command set is in use, as distinct from home grown systems or relaxation born of familiarity and benign weather.

To reiterate

Option 1 is appropriate in a two stage process where the resulting action is understood - simplistically it is giving notice that the turn has started and the crew should let go at the right moment and then haul at the right moment. This is the purpose of helm's a lee used in the three stage command set.

Option 2 is a common understanding as part of both two and three stage process, but will not work universally, it is not suitable for all circumstances and would lead to problems and possibly danger on some boats. Similar to my comment under option 1, it is notice that further actions should begin, sequence and timing as briefed/demontrated/practised

My post #259 on this thread gives my view of the circumstances in which your first poll option may be appropriate, and also my view of when this option does not apply and a three stage call is appropriate. This post has the support of several others, most of whom have also affirmed in their own posts the skipper's right to do what he thinks best suits his vessel, crew and other circumstances.

A long way from your accusation of arrogance.

My post #95 gives examples of when your second poll option is not appropriate

I quote my post #28 from the poll thread:

"I'm amused that the poll options do not include what the 'RYA...wallahs' suggested so wonder how you can conclude that they do not have popular support.

Another interpretation might be that the erudite and articulate exponents steeped in RYA learning on the command thread are capable of expressing themselves in words, where others on this poll take an easier option of clicking a button"

I accept this may sound arrogant, but the intention was to return to the richness of debate in words rather than a poll that I still struggle to see the point of
 
Lakesailor - I was taught to sail by my father who learned to sail ten years before Swallows and Amazons was written.

Tacking a gaff cutter, the actual order of commands in full would be:

Ready about.

Get the mainsheet in.

(hook on the lee topping lift)

Set up the lee runner

Lee Oh!

Jib sheets

Let fly the lee runner

Staysail

Ease the sheet

(cast off the lee topping lift)

What he usually said was:

"We might improve the shining hour by putting a tack in, when you have a moment!"
 
To go back to my earlier post.

As far as I can see there are 3 points in this discussion:

1) Historical correctness.
Does not really matter but in my believe it would be "lee-ho" a helm order as others have said passed through generations.

2) No of steps in a tack.
This can be broken down into hundreds, loading winches, running back stays etc etc etc The first time you tack a boat with beginner crew there are allot more than 3 stages. Once passed the lumpy learning bit I found the crew timed it about right without help.

3) The actual call that is made on tacking.
It seems there are 2 in circulation, with people unlikely to change their ways.
"Ready about" "Lee Ho" & "Ready About" "Helms down" "Lee Ho"

2 different uses for the same word, that to me is not at all sensible.

At the very least next time any one is out teaching they should make the students aware of the different calls used on different boats.

If not they may well sail on boats and for no fault of there own, they are invited back. Not because they did not know what they where doing just because they did not understand what they where meant to do.

Yes as skipper we should all check that each person is up to speed on the boat its easily over looked/ misunderstood. Particularly when you do not want to start teaching people to suck eggs.

As for which one is in most common use well the forum pole has a couple more days to run:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312759

Although as that seems to be deemed by some not count, this will always be a circler argument.

Enjoy your sailing, how ever you do it...

:p
 
onesea said:
Although as that seems to be deemed by some not count, this will always be a circler argument.
Click to expand...

I think for this to be a circular argument you would need a tack AND a gybe.

But I have to say this thread has just confused me. I always thought it was "Ready to shout! - Leo". At which point the whole crew shouted back "LEO!"

Which was fine until I stopped sailing with Leo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top