Commands for going about.

my first sailing experience was with a very great friend and experienced sailor. He pronounced that to tack was to "yibble" therefore ever since on our boat it is:

1) Ready about?
response "Yes"
2) "Yibble"

It works for us!
 
prv said:
OK, but what's that got to do with whether the helmsman tells the jibsheet crew when to let go?

(ie, why is it a reply to my post?)

Pete
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1) If its a big boat there may be a lot of load on the jib until it goes into the wind. I was on a Challanger 72 where the sheet load can be 2000KG. You just can't let that fly.

2) If the sheet man lets go of the leeward sheet too soon it loses drive immediately (and starts to flog). Depending on the boat or the situation (racing) you may not want to loose that drive.

3) If its a heavy long keeler (or a modern boat in light airs) it may not always make it through the tack under its own way. The helmsman may then want the jib held on to to let it back and help it through the tack. He will get the "feel" of this during the manouvre so it has to be his call.

4) On the modern Jen 39 we were on last year both sheet winches are right back by the helmsman. The winchmen had to face backwards so relied on his call.



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Interesting discussion. I learnt to use "Ready About" as a preparatory command and "Lee Oh" when the tiller goes across when I was a boy, and that is still what I tend to expect to use. But sailing with someone less experienced has made me realize just how many assumptions I was making! The "Ready About", "Lee Oh" sequence assumes that the person handling the sheets is sufficiently skilled to know when to let go one sheet and haul on the other. In my present circumstances, that isn't a valid assumption, and I have to give supplementary instructions like "Ok, let that rope go now" and "Pull in the other one" - usually just when my attention should be elsewhere!

As far as the words and their etymology go, it doesn't really matter. I'd always assumed, for example, that "Lee Oh" EITHER derived from putting the helm to lee OR that it was a corruption of "Let go and haul". But as long as it is clear what command is being given, it is the sequence and the expectations that are important, not the words themselves. If I thought it would work better, I'd get Calli to find me the Cantonese equivalents and I'd use them!

For a while, I coxed a rowing 8. Different clubs tended to use different sequences of orders; but the result was the same. For example, I used the sequence "Next Stroke", pause for the current stroke to finish, then "Paddle Light" or "Row" or whatever. Other clubs thought this was pampering the oarsmen, and only gave the second command! And of course, occasionally, there wasn't time for the preparatory order. But on the whole, the principle of a preparatory order then the executive order tends to work well.
 
shaunksb said:
Are you sure?

I think it is an abbreviation for

"Let go and Haul"

Ho = Haul

as in heave ho



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Well, I'm as sure as I can be - supported by the fact that others say "Lee's a' helm". Unfortunatley, Lee Ho is a very common Chinese name, so web searches do not produce much useful information!
 
Actually, the strongest justification for believing that it is short for "Lee Helm" is that the equivalent when Gybing is "Gybe Ho" - that certainly does not mean "let go and haul"
 
AntarcticPilot said:
it is the sequence and the expectations that are important, not the words themselves.
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I agree

One instructer I sailed with who races with a young crew uses

Ready to tack

Tacking

Sheet in

I'm sure most of us dont bother with "helm to lee" when cruising or even anything other than "I'm going to tack now" when you're with you family or mates.

It's just handy to know the terms if you are sailing with a competent but not familiar crew.


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... but I come back to the fact that the most important thing is a positive acknowledgement from all crew on deck - the alternative is to risk injury or MOB
 
The commands needed depend on the type of boat and the circumstances. For example when racing an International 14 on the Thames, quick tacking was the order of the day and 'Tack!' immediately before putting the helm over had to do. Today with my self-tacking rig with boom well above head height it's sufficient to say 'I'm tacking' as I turn the wheel. (and occasionally 'leave the b****y sheets alone!'). With our disabled people who mostly know nothing of nautical matters the commands become 'let go the green' and 'pull in the red'.

On a modern cruiser you need to warn the crew to get ready on the headsail sheets and let anyone in the galley you are just about to tip lunch on the floor. Once turning the next important thing is to say when to release the sheet and when to start sheeting in on the new lee side. This sequence does the job: Ready about...Tacking...Let go & haul.

Some crews will prefer loads of traditional jargon like 'helm's a'lee' but I avoid using that particular one because the important information is the point at which one starts to turn, not the fact that the rudder has reached the end of it's travel It's a carry over from the days when the helmsman was informing the Captain that his order has been carried out which is out of place when it's the helmsman giving the orders.

A search of the web has failed to come up with the command sequence for tacking a square rigger but it goes something like this (I'm sure there's someone here who can correct my memory).

Crew to bracing stations
Up tacks & sheets
Hard a'port/starboard
Helm's a'lee
Spanker to windward
Mains'l haul
Foremast braces let go & haul
Headsail sheets
Rudder amidships

For an efficient job, each command should be (a) clear to the crew of the day (b) a necessary step (c) given at the right time.
 
BobPrell said:
Chay Blyth himself has stated that the use of arcane yachting language serves no useful purpose.
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Having observed CB's use of language while performing the simple task of hooking up to a mooring buoy with a large crew he's the last person I'd look to for advice on the subject :eek:
 
The speed of my fingers is defeated by the rapid interest this excellent thread has developed but here goes anyway:

with ref to PRV post #57:

Releasing the sheet when the jib breaks (loses the wind? flaps? backs?) may be too soon in a vessel that is slow in stays, or as those who advocate plain english might say, in a vessel which when tacking is slow to turn past the point at which it is pointing directly into the wind and settle with the wind comfortably blowing over the other side, resulting in getting stuck in irons (as our well honed and evolved nautical language has it rather concisely and accurately). On a cutter it’s common to leave the jib backed until the staysail is starting to be sheeted in.

The RYA is correct to identify and teach a standard that is useful as a basis for development of a personal system based on experience.

‘Mind your head’ ok as a warning to the guy in danger but a distraction to others who should be minding fingers. ‘Let it go now’ again, ok to the guy who needs to let it go but not to anyone else.

As stated by others, a well drilled and practised racing crew on a large boat will respond to the changing context. They will still need direction and command in exceptional circumstances though and a shared understanding of terminology for equipment and action.

When I raced high performance dinghies it was the crew’s job to call the tack, the helms job to drive the boat fast. The helm still picked the exact moment though, and the tack happened either wordlessly or with a ‘now’.

As skipper of an eighty foot cutter it was necessary to half furl the yankee before tacking which needed it’s own drill. Once it was half furled though, you couldn’t better ready about, helms a lee, lee oh until settled on the new heading when it was time to let the yankee which again needed it’s own drill.

No point in tradition for the sake of it, but at its best it’s a shortcut to systems that are tried and tested and have some universality. At its worst it’s a source of irritation, humour, danger.
 
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shaunksb said:
Do you not let go of the mainsheet after main has gone through the wind??


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What's that got to do with it? The point is that "Lee Ho" and "Gybe Ho" are uttered in the same circumstances so why does one signify "Let go and haul" while the other signifies "I'm putting the helm over"? You also have to let go and haul the jib sheets when gybing. You do not let go and haul the mainsheet during tacking.
 
snowleopard said:
I do, but that's because I have no shrouds for the boom to hit. On most boats though, letting go of the mainsheet is a recipe for bent boom or lost mast!
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I didn't mean let it go all the way!

You let go until it is roughly in position and then sheet (Haul) it in.



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onesea said:
I think its called standardisation?

Most sailors understand the terms and soon learn them...
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Digbydog said:
It is therefore important to standardise some phrases, which can be used on all boats and by all crews. If you do not do so confusion can and will ensue.
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Flying Penguin said:
It really doesn't matter what the commands are as long as everyone is on the same page,
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Reading through this thread it is blindingly obvious that there is no standardisation and that everyone is singing from a different page.
 
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