Colregs "in sight of one another " quandry

[bedouin]

I agree there is no problem, i've always had that same attitude. It's easy for us to give way, rather than expect bigger ships to do so. I've been told on here that if i'm the stand on vessel i'm obliged to stand on, but i think that's not only wrong, it's nonsense and foolish. If we take action early enough there is no risk of collision and Colregs are immaterial (with respect to give way/stand on).

I know many small skippers do so but it is wrong and it breaks Colregs.

The danger is that large ships are very capable of seeing and passing you at a safe distance - and in most cases will have done so long before you can assess that risk of collision exists.

The usual action of a ship will be to alter course slightly to pass astern of you - if you "give way" you will be negating the ship's actions and putting you and them into greater danger.

That is not to say you should "stand on regardless" but you should not think of giving way until you are getting fairly close. You can take action much faster than the ship so you have plenty of time of do so once you are sure he has not altered course for you.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Ooooops .... that's torn it.

Richard

 

[PaulRainbow]

I know many small skippers do so but it is wrong and it breaks Colregs.

That's the standard reply

I disagree. If i take action early enough i'm not giving way, i'm making a course change.

 

[bedouin]

That's the standard reply

I disagree. If i take action early enough i'm not giving way, i'm making a course change.

Same applies - if you sail with AIS you can sometimes see ships making a small course adjustment a long way from you - long before you can make a reasonable assessment yourself (unless you have radar).

If you subsequently alter course all you do is put yourself in danger and inconvenience the ship. I don't understand why you think that is a good idea.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Same applies - if you sail with AIS you can sometimes see ships making a small course adjustment a long way from you - long before you can make a reasonable assessment yourself (unless you have radar).

If you subsequently alter course all you do is put yourself in danger and inconvenience the ship. I don't understand why you think that is a good idea.

What if i need to tack, or i'm at my next waypoint, does Colregs say that i can't change course ?

Of course it doesn't. If i can see a vessel miles away and decide to make an alteration to avoid a risk of collision developing there is nothing in Colregs that says i can't. Nothing else in the rule book of common sense either. If a risk of collision didn't exist, not only would the other vessel not have made any course changes (highly unlikely a ship would have changed course for a small yacht several miles away anyway) and no-one is yet the stand on or give way vessel.

Key point, which you seem to have missed, is taking action very early, before a risk of collision even exists. No good leaving it until a risk does exists, or Colregs kicks in and everything you say becomes correct.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

There is an interesting physical principle, which is that the path light follows is reversible. In other words, if one vessel can see another, it automatically follows that both can see each other. There are practical exceptions, such as a vessel being able to see the top of another vessel's mast, but not the hull. However, equally practically, vessels at the kind of distance where only the mast or sail of one is visible from the other are HIGHLY unlikely to be in a situation where ColRegs apply; if a ship is observing a yacht, then for the hull to be invisible the range would have to be 10 miles+.

The rule itself is absolutely clear and unambiguous; it says that if you can see a vessel, then you must observe the regulations specified. It assumes that if one vessel can see another, then the two are intervisible - which the laws of physics guarantees except in practical situations.

 

[lw395]

I know many small skippers do so but it is wrong and it breaks Colregs.

The danger is that large ships are very capable of seeing and passing you at a safe distance - and in most cases will have done so long before you can assess that risk of collision exists.

The usual action of a ship will be to alter course slightly to pass astern of you - if you "give way" you will be negating the ship's actions and putting you and them into greater danger.

That is not to say you should "stand on regardless" but you should not think of giving way until you are getting fairly close. You can take action much faster than the ship so you have plenty of time of do so once you are sure he has not altered course for you.

Watching them on AIS, they will very often make an early alteration so that you pass astern of them.
Which makes a lot of sense, because the last thing anybody wants is for the yacht to be close ahead of the ship.
Obviously if you are on course to pass a little ahead, they will act to increase that margin, and this is often a more noticeable alteration.

 

[john_morris_uk]

What if i need to tack, or i'm at my next waypoint, does Colregs say that i can't change course ?

Of course it doesn't. If i can see a vessel miles away and decide to make an alteration to avoid a risk of collision developing there is nothing in Colregs that says i can't. Nothing else in the rule book of common sense either. If a risk of collision didn't exist, not only would the other vessel not have made any course changes (highly unlikely a ship would have changed course for a small yacht several miles away anyway) and no-one is yet the stand on or give way vessel.

Key point, which you seem to have missed, is taking action very early, before a risk of collision even exists. No good leaving it until a risk does exists, or Colregs kicks in and everything you say becomes correct.

How do you know whether a risk of collision ‘might develop’?

You say a ship is unlikely to alter for a small boat several miles away, but that’s exactly what most ships do.

The reality is that from the bridge of the ship, they’ve probably assessed what you are doing long before you notice what’s happening. You then ‘helpfully alter course really early to avoid (in your mind) even the possibility of a situation developing’ and there follows some head scratching from the OOW as to what you’re playing at and what you’re going to do next.