Colregs don't apply to the elite?

[lw395]

I don't know if it's still the case, but the deepest route was somewhat to the North of the Transit. Half a cable?
The shallowest bit of the swashway was generally the second cable or so from the line of the channel marks?
It may have moved since I took much interest in it.
Ships are always going to turn a radius of some sort.
Of course this is exactly where yachts tend to take their sails down to motor through the entrance....

5 blasts is not to be taken that seriously, it's not a proper near miss until they tannoy the crew to 'boat stations'. Or so I'm told. Allegedly!

 

[southseaian]

I would suggest that describing sailors as "thoughtless and selfish" when they are complying with both COLREGS and LNTM comes pretty close to getting at people. Whereas you are defending the behaviour of ferries who comply with neither

I was not aware that I had called anybody selfish or thoughtless when they had also complied with the ColRegs.
I do apologise if I have offended anyone through implication.
I have no connection with Wightlink other than knowing officers and having been on the bridge on crossings.
I'm sure you would agree that there are boaters who need educating.
The QHM had addressed this in respect of the actual harbour entrance area in recent years.

 

[l'escargot]

Actually it's my observation that very often the Wight link Fishbourne car ferries don't use the actual transit line but turn before it. This can be where the conflict with yachts can occur. The yachts are continuing just outside the main channel intending to turn onto the transit are faced with a ferry turning to starboard before the transit.
To some extent i do blame sailing instructors who use the transit to train beginners in the use of such.
I am happy to take some of the blame.
The ferry skippers know the transit is popular with yachts and I have been told by a skipper that is why they tend to turn early...

And that view perhaps now supports my post that you originally took issue with, that it can on occasions be difficult to predict the course of Wightlink ferries some distance away, despite your previous advice about being observant, reading charts and inferring that people are unintelligent, uninformed and arrogant - if you start bandying words like that about, people are going to use them back. It is all very well stating what they should do but that in no way negates the experience of a number of people on here that they don't always behave in such a manner.

 

[southseaian]

And that view perhaps now supports my post that you originally took issue with that it can on occasions be difficult to predict the course of Wightlink ferries some distance away, despite your previous advice about being observant, reading charts and inferring that people are unintelligent, uninformed. It is all very well stating what they should do but that in no way negates the experience of a number of people on here that they don't always behave in such a manner.

O for a perfect world.
There seems to be a trend of hasty replies and poorly composed posts on here, by me at least!!!
When I talked about predicting a ferries intended track at a mile I was not thinking harbour approaches or the Swashway but further west. I obviously did not make that clear.
We all know that there will always be people {leisure boats or professional seamen) not doing the right thing for a variety of reasons.
I also believe that there are some clueless boaters leaving Portsmouth Harbour. What should be done about that is a different debate. Compulsory training or licensing could be the answer. ( I am NOT referring to anyone on the forum)

 

[bedouin]

Actually it's my observation that very often the Wight link Fishbourne car ferries don't use the actual transit line but turn before it. This can be where the conflict with yachts can occur. The yachts are continuing just outside the main channel intending to turn onto the transit are faced with a ferry turning to starboard before the transit.

Indeed on a busy day it can be very difficult for the ferry to cross the small boat channel to/from the outer swashway - boats tend to turn pretty sharp on the transit whereas ferries need more space to turn and are likely to know better where the deepest water really is.

But most of the behaviour complained about has tended to be in the swashway itself - typically with the ferry overtaking a yacht (which may itself be constrained to be in the same channel) Ian Grant used to describe it as being able to shake hands with the ferry passangers - and I have experienced one passing within 10 feet when I have been under sail which is frightening as a combination of the wash and wind shadow means you have no control over your own boat

 

[l'escargot]

It doesn't take many incidents to get a reputation - I must have seen hundreds if not thousands of encounters between Wightlink and yachts and only a handful have stood out.

It used to be a common subject of discussion on SB a few years back (Whatever happened to Ian Grant ).

Found an old thread of Ian's here that's is worth a read for a laugh: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?214551-Giving-Way-to-Ferries-advice-please
Forgotten all about that one, funny how some people didn't spot it as a wind up from the start...

 

[Tidewaiter2]

image: http://www.ybw.com/forums/images/ybw/misc/quote_icon.png
Quote Originally Posted by Tidewaiter2
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And can't you just tell the short range thinkers, raggie and mobo, as they hammer flat out past you inbound from Jack in the Basket, or the Tide guage, to arrive at those pinch points as the two ferries occupy all the available water,. Ah, the sound of synchronised 5 blasts in the morning
image: http://www.ybw.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.png


Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...apply-to-the-elite/page20#CrSxqUpHmFJ4g8zy.99

Yes I did leave Portsmouth Harbour once but quickly returned when I met open water.
By the way the two examples you put forward refer to ferries going in opposite directions, not overtaking each other.

Yes, I've done that too, in my time, no point in getting a good thumping for 12hrs across to France, or Down East or West, if the wind and sea state are bad- just go back to the fleshpots of Gossie and try again another day

Yes, I knew that, and your point is? My point in my post was that the ferries usually fill most of the available water at those two choke points, as they pass, you can see the situation coming a fair way off, if keeping a good lookout, so you hold back/slow down, which is seamanlike behaviour, and let it resolve itself-yet as I stated above, a lot of lemmings of both types rush forward past you into the cauldron, then get 5 interrogative as a result. They find no brakes on a boat, just reverse

Thankfully neither location is as bad as The Hamble Scramble or Haslar small boat channel on a nice summer sunny weekend, where M27/M3 habits seem to override all commonsense.; "the measure of a human being is between desire for a thing, and stretching out your hand".
Still, soon be Autumn and Winter relaxed wide open spaces cruising time again :encouragement:

 

[bedouin]

Found an old thread of Ian's here that's is worth a read for a laugh: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?214551-Giving-Way-to-Ferries-advice-please
Forgotten all about that one, funny how some people didn't spot it as a wind up from the start...

Ian Grant's relationship with Wightlink had been a standing joke on the forum long before then - I can't remember the details but I am pretty sure it came out of a couple of close encounters in quick succession

 

[lw395]

Indeed on a busy day it can be very difficult for the ferry to cross the small boat channel to/from the outer swashway - .....

The small boat channel starts at 4 bar buoy, the ferries should not be crossing it......

 

[Resolution]

Ian Grant's relationship with Wightlink had been a standing joke on the forum long before then - I can't remember the details but I am pretty sure it came out of a couple of close encounters in quick succession

Ah! The history of it all! I see that you have been a registered user of the forum since May 2001, as has The Snail. Is that when the forum started? Presumably Ian Grant was originally under his own name before re-registering as southseaian about three seconds ago.
Keep on trucking!

 

[l'escargot]

Ah! The history of it all! I see that you have been a registered user of the forum since May 2001, as has The Snail. Is that when the forum started? Presumably Ian Grant was originally under his own name before re-registering as southseaian about three seconds ago.
Keep on trucking!

The forum had been going some years by May 2001, I think I joined originally in 98 or 99. It changed format/software in 2001 and all the existing members prior to that date couldn't be carried over so we were registered with a common join date. If you go to the membership list and sort by join date you can see all the old hands - many of whom are still posting.

Nice idea for a wind up but I doubt whether Ian could even be complimentary about Wightlink under a new ID - as Bedouin says he had a number of run ins with, coming out of Portsmouth I think. I was having some trouble with them in Wootton at the same time as were some others too - I seem to think Old Harry was another one.

 

[Serin]

The forum had been going some years by May 2001, I think I joined originally in 98 or 99.

In fact the forum or its predecessor was going for quite a few years before 2001. I know this because a year or two into my membership I got to know one member personally and he mentioned on the forum that he and his wife were expecting their first child. That child is now a young man of at least twenty.

 

[bedouin]

The forum had been going some years by May 2001, I think I joined originally in 98 or 99. It changed format/software in 2001 and all the existing members prior to that date couldn't be carried over so we were registered with a common join date. If you go to the membership list and sort by join date you can see all the old hands - many of whom are still posting.

Nice idea for a wind up but I doubt whether Ian could even be complimentary about Wightlink under a new ID - as Bedouin says he had a number of run ins with, coming out of Portsmouth I think. I was having some trouble with them in Wootton at the same time as were some others too - I seem to think Old Harry was another one.

Ah - the good old days

I started off on the old Sailing Today Forums about 98-99, then we migrated en block to the YBW ones when the ST forum closed sometime in 2000. The YBW forums were closed for a month or two in early 2001 and we all had to reregister in May with the new forum software (and then there was BYM - but that is another story).

There are still a handful of regulars here who have been around since those days - but many old friends (such as Ian Grant) who don't visit any more

 

[JumbleDuck]

I've been away and I'm a lazy reader. Where has this thread got to? Can I safely assume that it's the usual battle between

A. The Literalists

Who believe that the IRPCS precisely define every action to be taken to avoid collisions, particularly because Rule 2 says "or use your judgement when necessary " and Rule 17 says "if it's not working, get out the way" and
​

B The Spiritualists

Who believe that the IRPCS cannot precisely define every action to be taken to avoid collisions, and who point out that Rule 2 says "or use your judgement when necessary " while Rule 17 says "if it's not working, get out the way"?


​

Quite why the two sides see any disagreement is beyond me, but they do seem to get awfully het up about it.

 

[RichardS]

I've been away and I'm a lazy reader. Where has this thread got to? Can I safely assume that it's the usual battle between

A. The Literalists

Who believe that the IRPCS precisely define every action to be taken to avoid collisions, particularly because Rule 2 says "or use your judgement when necessary " and Rule 17 says "if it's not working, get out the way" and
​

B The Spiritualists

Who believe that the IRPCS cannot precisely define every action to be taken to avoid collisions, and who point out that Rule 2 says "or use your judgement when necessary " while Rule 17 says "if it's not working, get out the way"?


​

Quite why the two sides see any disagreement is beyond me, but they do seem to get awfully het up about it.

Read it and weep!

Richard

 

[dom]

I've been away and I'm a lazy reader. Where has this thread got to? Can I safely assume that it's the usual battle between

A. The Literalists

Who believe that the IRPCS precisely define every action to be taken to avoid collisions, particularly because Rule 2 says "or use your judgement when necessary " and Rule 17 says "if it's not working, get out the way" and
​

B The Spiritualists

Who believe that the IRPCS cannot precisely define every action to be taken to avoid collisions, and who point out that Rule 2 says "or use your judgement when necessary " while Rule 17 says "if it's not working, get out the way"?
​

No you can't JD; it momentarily reached that erstwhile equilibrium point, but then exploded into something more akin to downtown Basra on a rough night

 

[southseaian]

Ah! The history of it all! I see that you have been a registered user of the forum since May 2001, as has The Snail. Is that when the forum started? Presumably Ian Grant was originally under his own name before re-registering as southseaian about three seconds ago.
Keep on trucking!

Sorry to disappoint all the old timers on this forum but i have never been Ian Grant in any life.
I've have used this forum over the years but am generally too busy. I had such a lapse that I forgot my log in details and the administrator said i needed to start with a new name.

Interesting how this thread became a discussion about Wight Link ferries. I did think that the OP might have actually been in an overtaking situation.
Rule 13 Overtaking.
(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II, ANY VESSEL overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.
I interpret this to mean that if a vessel sailing is overtaking a power driven vessel (including a sailing boat motor sailing) the sailing vessel should keep out of the way.

 

[JumbleDuck]

No you can't JD; it momentarily reached that erstwhile equilibrium point, but then exploded into something more akin to downtown Basra on a rough night

On the bright side, then, it's still better than East Kilbride.

 

[Resolution]

Sorry to disappoint all the old timers on this forum but i have never been Ian Grant in any life.
.

Apologies Ian C. I don't know how we got you confused with the other Ian.
Peter

 

[l'escargot]

Sorry to disappoint all the old timers on this forum but i have never been Ian Grant in any life. ..

No disappointment, I don't think anyone who knew him would have thought from your posts you could've been him, I think it was just a suggestion from a relative new comer who didn't actually know him...

Now if you were to claim to be alant... :encouragement: