Colregs conundrum

snowleopard

snowleopard

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I can and sometimes do sail under mast alone, a little over 1 knot per Beaufort unit. Yes really - 9 knots in a F8, 6.5 knots in F6.

Technically I am a sailing vessel with the associated colregs implications and I am limited in ability to manoeuvre.

Of course anyone approaching me will not expect me to be sailing. Is there any way of asserting my status or should I resign myself to starting engines and getting out of the way when meeting other boats?
 
Don't worry - by the time you're doing 9 knots the Moboers will have gone home because it's too bumpy for them ;)
 
snowleopard said:
I can and sometimes do sail under mast alone, a little over 1 knot per Beaufort unit. Yes really - 9 knots in a F8, 6.5 knots in F6.

Technically I am a sailing vessel with the associated colregs implications and I am limited in ability to manoeuvre.

Of course anyone approaching me will not expect me to be sailing. Is there any way of asserting my status or should I resign myself to starting engines and getting out of the way when meeting other boats?
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" Not under command" signal springs to mind--
 
You could use the coloured lights at the masthead, but it may be better not to use 'obscure' signals that some will not understand.
Of course as you have a motor ready for instant use, you don't really need the privileges given to a sailing vessel (perhaps?).
Just remember you might well be overtaking things!
Cynical answer:
Trawling shapes?

cheers,
 
snowleopard said:
I can and sometimes do sail under mast alone, a little over 1 knot per Beaufort unit. Yes really - 9 knots in a F8, 6.5 knots in F6.

Technically I am a sailing vessel with the associated colregs implications and I am limited in ability to manoeuvre.

Of course anyone approaching me will not expect me to be sailing. Is there any way of asserting my status or should I resign myself to starting engines and getting out of the way when meeting other boats?
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Sail or power is irrelevant: surely Ball over Diamond over Ball is all you need?

Rule 27 (b)

I'm sure you must have those on board: and a spare set?
 
Rule 3

(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.


I submit, m'lud, that a sailing vessel that has no sails hoisted cannot be said to be 'under sail', and is not, therefore, a 'sailing vessel' as meant by this regulation.
 
parsifal said:
Rule 3

(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.


I submit, m'lud, that a sailing vessel that has no sails hoisted cannot be said to be 'under sail', and is not, therefore, a 'sailing vessel' as meant by this regulation.
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Part of my sails are rigid. Is a Walker Wingsail a mobo?

And you might get some argument if you told these guys they weren't sailing!
americas-cup-yacht_1520695i.jpg
 
Gosh - don't they know they shouldn't sail through controlled airspace - the aircraft will have to pull up or bank hard to miss the sail .... ;)
 
I think the technical answer is that if you do not have a motoring cone displayed, you sould be considered a sailing vessel. The problem is very few display motoring cones when motor sailing with just th main.
 
snowleopard said:
Part of my sails are rigid. Is a Walker Wingsail a mobo?

And you might get some argument if you told these guys they weren't sailing!
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I can't be bothered to check but I'm willing to bet that the Col Regs don't define "under sail", just as they neglect to define so many other critical terms. So there seems little point in arguing about what 'under sail' means. Unless someone can find a few court cases where this has been established we'll all have to define the term with our own individual guesswork.

Just one more reason that the IRPCS desperately need an update. They suffer from excessive verbiage, unnecessary duplications and complications plus (and this is inexcusable) weasel words.

FWIW I would consider a boat running under bare poles to be 'under sail'. I'm sure plenty of others wouldn't.
 
toad_oftoadhall said:
I can't be bothered to check but I'm willing to bet that the Col Regs don't define "under sail", just as they neglect to define so many other critical terms. So there seems little point in arguing about what 'under sail' means. Unless someone can find a few court cases where this has been established we'll all have to define the term with our own individual guesswork.

Just one more reason that the IRPCS desperately need an update. They suffer from excessive verbiage, unnecessary duplications and complications plus (and this is inexcusable) weasel words.

FWIW I would consider a boat running under bare poles to be 'under sail'. I'm sure plenty of others wouldn't.
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Why should a sailing boat drifting in neutral be any different from a motorboat drifting in neutral, it's just doing it more efficiently?
In either case, if they were to need to give way to say, a fishing boat, they would respond by using their motor.
Whereas Oracle would probably have to sail as it probably has no motor. Just a few nanny ribs.
 
snowleopard said:
I can and sometimes do sail under mast alone, a little over 1 knot per Beaufort unit. Yes really - 9 knots in a F8, 6.5 knots in F6.

Technically I am a sailing vessel with the associated colregs implications and I am limited in ability to manoeuvre.

Of course anyone approaching me will not expect me to be sailing. Is there any way of asserting my status or should I resign myself to starting engines and getting out of the way when meeting other boats?
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Not using machinary therefore not under power. You are not drifting as you have way and steerage, so presumably sailing. As already said this may not be relevant.

You are not unable to manoever - its just that you cannot go upwind. Therefore I suggest you are Restricted in Ability to Manoever, and should show appropriate marks/lights if you wish to be considered so.
 
Within the rules you would be a vessel underway but not making way.

You are not a sailing vessel within the rules as you are not under sail.

Nor do you fit within the other descriptions suggested.

Totally disagree with Toad- the rules don't need re written, nor do we need court cases to interpret them correctly.
 
A sail is surely just something used to harness the power of the wind. OK, in this case it's a piece of aluminium tube, but so what, it's still a sail.

What do you do with it if you have to reef? Hacksaw?:D
 
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