ColRegs? Boats under oars/sweeps

[Poignard]

I had just locked out of Hythe Marina at LWS recently when I noticed two kayaks near the entrance to the narrow dredged channel. Obviously I did not want to run any risk of colliding with either of them and was gloomily contemplating the possibility of having to stop and perhaps drifting onto the mud. But there was no problem as they kindly stopped and waited until I got clear.

This got me thinking about whether there are any rules dealing with encounters between power boats and sail boats and boats propelled by oars or paddles. Obviously a yachtsman who ran over and injured a canoeist could not expect much sympathy but what if a rowing eight ran over an Optimist? Do the ColRegs cover rowing boats or canoes?

In the days when the Thames was full of ships and boats there must have been many collisions involving lighters and skiffs etc., so there is presumably some case-law.

 

[Twister_Ken]

My understanding is that human-powered craft have no special status under colregs.

 

[maxi77]

My wine fuddled brian tells me that oar propelled vessels are given way to by power by give way to sail.

Some one sober will be along sometime to confirm this.

 

[prv]

My wine fuddled brian tells me that oar propelled vessels are given way to by power [but] give way to sail.

Doesn't say so in the rules themselves.

I seem to remember the issue was mentioned in PBO a while back, but can't remember what the conclusion was.

I posted here once about a rowing boat rowing inconveniently into my path while tacking down the river. I think there may have been some responses there if anyone can be bothered to find it

EDIT: Here's my abovementioned thread on the same question: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243685 . Quite well-mannered for a colregs thread . Post 30 in that thread quotes the RYA's view on the matter.

Pete

 

[chrisedwards]

Using a yuloh on my 30, boat last week. This is worse than sweeps due to the fact that it is not visible to any boat approaching from forwards of my abeam. One yacht altered towards me asking if I needed a tow. In his mind I could be "restricted in ability to manoeuvre " or even "not under command" introducing far more possible rules. Maybe I should have had the apropriate signals up?

 

[Dave_Seager]

IRPCS, Part A, Rule 3 General Definitions, clearly states "a rowing vessel shall be considered as a power driven vessel".

Some confusion seems to arise because rowing vessels are treated similarly to sailing vessels with regard to lights. In at least one previous thread the lighting rule has been quoted out of context to suggest that a rowing vessel should have the same stand on rights as a sailing vessel.

 

[prv]

IRPCS, Part A, Rule 3 General Definitions, clearly states "a rowing vessel shall be considered as a power driven vessel".

OK, is there a new amendment to colregs I don't know about? I was under the impression that the latest amendment was the one that added WIG craft. Annoyingly there doesn't seem to be an "official" version easily viewable on the Web, but this copy includes WIG craft so I had assumed was up to date. It doesn't have a rule 3n.

Or have I just been trolled?

 

[Fire99]

Did a fairly recent RYA course and all the instruction states that if you have oars etc, (and are using them of course) you are a powered vessel and you abide by the same rules as one with an engine.

Makes sense really. Having oars means they have direct control of their direction and speed.

 

[Salty John]

The Wikipedia version of the Colregs has Rule3, , stating that a rowed boat is a power vessel, but I've never seen it in any other version.

In the RYA booklet Boat Owners Highway Code it states that 'oars usually give way to sail'.

It makes sense to me that an oar driven boat is a powered vessel but I'd be interested to know if this is clarified is a recent edition of Colregs.

 

[jamesjermain]

Correct. Rowing boats are mentioned in the definitions and therefore not as a separate entity elsewhere.

It makes logical sense since rowing boats are as manoeuvrable as small displacement motor boats and if a sailing boat is moving faster that a boat under oars then the rules for overtaking boats take precedence over the power/sail rules.

In the case of the OP he could claim rights as a boat restricted in its abilkity to manoeuvre provided the right signals/sounds were displayed.

 

[prv]

The Wikipedia version of the Colregs has Rule3, , stating that a rowed boat is a power vessel, but I've never seen it in any other version.

It was added by a random IP address (ie not a registered user) with no source. Possibly someone trying to win an argument?

I'm going to go and remove it.

Pete

 

[prv]

Correct. Rowing boats are mentioned in the definitions

Assuming by "definitions" you mean Rule 3 - can you point to a source other than Wikipedia that mentions rowing boats? That part was added to Wikipedia in a very suspicious edit, and I don't believe it's real.

In the case of the OP he could claim rights as a boat restricted in its abilkity to manoeuvre provided the right signals/sounds were displayed.

What work is he doing to gain that status?

Pete

 

[Evadne]

That's something I have wondered about: the perceived wisdom on the forum is that if you are not displaying the correct shapes or lights, then you forgo the privileges but is that true? The shapes and lights are for the information of other vessels, rather than as badges of authority, surely.

Certainly if a ship in a channel is not flying its shape, it doesn't make it any more maneuverable and yachts should give way where appropriate, and a sailing boat motor sailing without a cone should still be obliged to give way to one under sail. Few of us carry every conceivable shape and light, the most applicable example being one yacht towing another. Would anyone tacking down a channel really expect such a combination under power to give way to them? Unless they were racing, of course.

 

[awol]

From the MCA website Colregs (last changed 2004) does not have a 3 - it stops at WIGs. The Wikipedia version also has a modified AnnexIV cf the MCA version which includes DSC and GMDSS in the Distress Signals which it claims were added in 2007.

As I understand it, the "official" version applying to UK registered ships is contained in the Merchant Shipping (Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions) Regulations 1996 and any further MSNs issued by the MCA. Maybe they are just slow in updating their website.

 

[Lakesailor]

Would local byelaws have any bearing on the rights of rowers or paddlers?
Many rowers or canoeists may be within harbour authority limits.

On Windermere the Rules of navigation are based on Col Regs however

6.6 When two vessels, one of which (whether or not fitted with propelling
machinery or carrying sails) is being manually propelled solely by the use
of oars, are proceeding in such directions as to involve risk of collision, the
vessel which is not under oars shall keep out of the way of the other.

 

[prv]

That's something I have wondered about: the perceived wisdom on the forum is that if you are not displaying the correct shapes or lights, then you forgo the privileges but is that true?

I don't think so. Although note that a vessel constrained by draught may show a cylinder, not shall, and Rule 18(d) appears to say that if they choose not to then you don't have to give them room.

Pete

 

[andygc]

This link might be useful for those seeking the official version of the COLREGS and the most recent IMO amendment. There is no Rule 3n. I seem to remember in my education (long ago) being taught that the simplest machine is a lever - and pair of oars is a pair of levers. Oars are machinery.

 

[prv]

This link might be useful for those seeking the official version of the COLREGS and the most recent IMO amendment

I thought there was a 2007 amendment, effective 2009?

Pete

 

[awol]

This link might be useful for those seeking the official version of the COLREGS and the most recent IMO amendment. There is no Rule 3n. I seem to remember in my education (long ago) being taught that the simplest machine is a lever - and pair of oars is a pair of levers. Oars are machinery.

Haven't claimed a Lakesailoring for a while but posting a link that leads to the link I posted must count.

 

[Evadne]

I don't think so. Although note that a vessel constrained by draught may show a cylinder, not shall, and Rule 18(d) appears to say that if they choose not to then you don't have to give them room.

Pete

It does indeed seem to say that. But you mustn't forget Rule 2 which urges you to use your common sense and not hit anything unnecessarily. In fact one interpretation of rule 2 (b) could be telling you to give way to anyone who is constrained by draught or restricted in ability to maneuver, or whatever, even if they aren't displaying the correct signs.

These colreg details are fun to pick over in the armchair, but I dread meeting anyone taking that attitude to sea, and demanding their right of way.