Collision Regulations (Test your skills V)

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]
The IRPCS do indeed apply in a marina and as the boat reversing has no where to manoeuvre with out inflicting damage to other boats then the boat in the main fairway should give way to boats on his starboard side.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yet again you fail to recognise that there is another course of action ...

You can go forward as well as backward - you don't need to turn around.

I'm glad I don't marina berth!

 

[Wandering Star]

I think your use of the word "yacht" as though it specifically describes a sailing craft is odd! I thought a yacht could be power or sail - I don't think there's a distinction. Since the sailing yacht has her sails furled this has no bearing on any part of your conundrum as she is in the same category as any other power driven vessel. Mind you the large sailing yacht might be restricted by her draft in a marina to a greater degree than a motor yacht.

I'm not being picky at all, the question was good and your interpretation probably correct, I'm just interested as to whether "yacht" signifies sail in a moboers vocabulary?

Cheers, Brian.

 

[jfm]

Ek? Daka - soi disant Master of the Rolls on Colregs? Feel free to chip in Colregs opinions, as we all do, but please refrain from being a self-appointed judge purporting to be the source of "technically correct" answers /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

"as the boat reversing has no where to manoeuvre with out inflicting damage to other boats then the boat in the main fairway should give way to boats on his starboard side" That's bollox Daka. You cannot invoke RAM etc in a 33 foot mobo without displaying the dayshape. Do you think other skippers can read your mind? In court, if you claim RAM in Felix without the dayshape you will lose, no question

"that boat had already breached col regs in that he was on the port side of his fairway" Eh? Where did the question say he was wrong side of the fairway?

"this poll proves the majority of owners haven't got a clue about the regulations" - there speaks a kettle then

 

[Sgeir]

A very enlightening thread, DAKA. Thank you.

Would you mind posting links to your earlier Test your skills I-IV, or, perhaps Test your skills A-U?

 

[Sans Bateau]

An interesting post, but I don't think there was anything to be gained in particular in identifying the boat in the main channel as a yacht by pointing out that a mast was visible. In fact if this were a real life situation the fact that you could see a mast, may well have avoided a collision.

Daka, you know where I keep my boat and one of the problems when leaving my berth is small boats (and it matters little if it is sail or power, we all know that a sail boat under power is treated the same as a mobo under col regs) approaching from my right (stbd side). The channel there is too narrow to make any difference which side you are on. Many especially smaller boats are hidden behind the Trader and Squadron on the hammerhead.

So, a good post, highlighting a situation that often exists, but there is no need for the mischief in trying to make it a mobo/sail issue.

Oh! one other point that is factually incorrect in your post, if there is a F7 blowing in the marina F8 in open water say?, Its highly unlikely that any mobo, other than a pilot boat, will be going anywhere! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Have a nice weekend.

 

[l'escargot]

Can you draw one of your pictures Pete, something doesn't quite add up here? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[DAKA]

[ QUOTE ]
[Yet again you fail to recognise that there is another course of action ...

You can go forward as well as backward - you don't need to turn around.



[/ QUOTE ]

What at 70p a litre /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[DAKA]

[ QUOTE ]
Ek? Daka - soi disant Master of the Rolls on Colregs? Feel free to chip in Colregs opinions, as we all do, but please refrain from being a self-appointed judge purporting to be the source of "technically correct" answers /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

"as the boat reversing has no where to manoeuvre with out inflicting damage to other boats then the boat in the main fairway should give way to boats on his starboard side" That's bollox Daka. You cannot invoke RAM etc in a 33 foot mobo without displaying the dayshape. Do you think other skippers can read your mind? In court, if you claim RAM in Felix without the dayshape you will lose, no question

"that boat had already breached col regs in that he was on the port side of his fairway" Eh? Where did the question say he was wrong side of the fairway?

"this poll proves the majority of owners haven't got a clue about the regulations" - there speaks a kettle then

[/ QUOTE ]

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Just my sense of humour /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Started as a serious post, it was an awkward situation I found myself in and I was keen to learn the correct answer, hence resurrected the old 'test your skills' series /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Once the replies came in I was pleased the most important message was asiminated..the marina isn't your cul de sac !

Also you cant rely on col regs as very few know them or take much notice of them.

 

[DAKA]

Only had significance in that I could see him and he couldn't see me, sound signals appropriate /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Left Chichester on Tuesday 35 knots, not many raggies or stinkers out, they appeared to have over looked the fact that it was NE and calm (ish).

 

[DAKA]

[ QUOTE ]
A very enlightening thread, DAKA. Thank you.

Would you mind posting links to your earlier Test your skills I-IV, or, perhaps Test your skills A-U?

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry for the delay, the search engine doesnt work that well.
Here is Test your skills III /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

<span style="color:blue">You left your boat in ST Peter Port last week due to bad weather and you need to bring it back as friends are scheduled to stay Bank Holiday Monday.

You plan to bring it back single handed but you have not managed to get a ferry as it is BH and the airport will not take your dinghy and 9.8 HP Tohatsu which you will need as your boat is swinging.

Some mates have been storm bound in Yarmouth for two days waiting to go to the CI but you cant get a ferry to IOW due to the BH.

You are talking about your predicament in the bar when someone points you toward 3 guys who are leaving for the CI in the morning, they are a bit odd as they speak in anagrams but you arrange to meet them in 'Vcean Oil age' at 0500 hrs.

Your face drops when you realise there has been a communication 'pu kucf' and the boat is a Jeanneau 40 ft sailing Yacht.

Desperate to get to your boat you force a smile 'Ah shes a beauty, what speed will she do?'

8 knots they reply so you guess it will take 3 times as long but at least you will be there by nightfall.

By tea time you have eaten all your sandwiches, drunk all your beer and been passed Hurst castle three times as the current drifted forward and backward.

They were impressed with your abilities in that you were about to sail back single handed and they have left you at the helm.
You are about 3 miles off the needles, it is getting dark and you spot a ship on your starboard side heading toward you............

You spot a familiar Volvo fascia in front of you and you decide to start the engine when you notice it is already running at 3/4 revs.

You go below to ask for advice but you find a pile of wet weather gear on the floor and creeks, groans and slapping sounds from the centre cabin.

You pick up the VHF in an attempt to make contact with the ship but you dont even know the name of this boat, you spot a horse shoe life belt with a name 'Bay Guoys'

What do you do now ?
</span>

 

[AndieMac]

Very good Daka /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif That is seriously funny. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[bbg]

[ QUOTE ]
Also you cant rely on col regs as very few know them or take much notice of them.

[/ QUOTE ] Including, I would say, you.
First I would refer you to Rule 6, which requires you to proceed at a speed that allows you to stop and take avoiding action in the circumstances - including having regard to your own manoeuvrability, stopping and turning distance, prevailing conditions and proximity of hazards. It seems you were not complying with this requirement.

Next, you seem to have concluded that you would be the "stand on" boat. You seem to rely on Rule 15, which applies to CROSSING situations. You weren't crossing. If you were correct, Which means you would be obliged to maintain your course and speed (R.17(a)(i)). As stand on vessel you would NOT be entitled to start maneouvring once you had entered the main channel - you would have to keep your course and speed.

Finally, your assertion that your starboard side had become your port side because you were reversing is interesting. Is there anything in the colregs to back it up, or are you just making that up too?

 

[Sgeir]

Very very good. Excellent even!
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[AndieMac]

I wonder what the responses would have been like, had the other vessel been described as, say, a large sports fisher with a high unmanned observation tower, instead of the word 'yacht'.

Just a thought /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Rules are cructial, but so is common sense and courtesy.

 

[Wiggo]

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but what's to stop you waiting in your fairway until the other boat has passed across the entrance? You fail to mention which way the F7 is blowing, but if it's on your stern you could hang around indefinitely in the fairway. If it's on your bow you could still stooge around, but it might be trickier to hold station if the wind catches your bow.

Colregs apply as described (e.g. you both have a duty to avoid a collision, remain at a controllable speed, keep a look out etc), but stand on vessel stuff doesn't appear to in this situation. The correct sound signals (I believe) would be one long blast to indicate you were approaching a blind corner, and three short to say you were operating astern propulsion. However, given the unusual nature of this situation, I don't know what order you would give them in, or whether the 3 blasts would enlighten or confuse...

jfm, thanks for 'lacuna' - I knew the word from it's musical sense, not the legal one, so I have now expanded my vocabulary. Looking up 'hiatus', however, reveals that one of its meanings may have been appropriate - "Hiatus: a period in which one is injured or hurt" although the etymology is possible even more appropriate, being from the Latin hiare, to yawn...

 

[Refueler]

The poll is lacking one essential - Should you WAIT till other boat is past and clear BEFORE letting go and reversing out ?

IRPCS are fine for clear and suitable waters - but here you are creating a situation by not waiting for other boat whether raggie or MOBO to pass and be clear - giving you then open marina water to do your reverse and depart bit.
Let's say it is similar to a car-park ? Do you reverse out from a parking space in front of car moving through the lanes ? No ? So why do it in a Marina with less manouvreable boats ?

Sorry but question is invalid.

 

[DAKA]

Unfortunately waiting wasnt an option, it was clear when we cast off.

We then proceeded slowly down the LONG fairway in the CROSS WIND and swirling current.
Holding station was not an option under those conditions.

Going forward may have been possible but not without risks as other boats had cast off in front of us, there would have been a real pile up.

In my opinion what must be taken away from this post is waters are not roads and the high way code does not apply, as much as some on this thread appear to interpret the col regs that way.

But equally as so few are aware of col regs then you can not rely on those either !

Knowing sound signals and being brave enough to blast away drawing on lookers / witnesses can be beneficial .

 

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]
We then proceeded slowly down the LONG fairway in the CROSS WIND and swirling current.
Holding station was not an option under those conditions.

Going forward may have been possible but not without risks as other boats had cast off in front of us, there would have been a real pile up.

[/ QUOTE ]
Daka - you really do get yourself into lots of messes .... perhaps you should turn the playstation off and go and cut the grass instead!! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[gandy]

[ QUOTE ]
Knowing sound signals and being brave enough to blast away drawing on lookers / witnesses can be beneficial .

[/ QUOTE ]
I voted for three blasts, but not sure now as the scenario has been more fully described. In my mind the time to give that signal is just before you start to reverse, to indicate that your vessel is about to move in the opposite direction to the way its facing.