Coding the boat, some practical questions

[jfm]

I have been workinbg to this list and have pretty much done all of it other than have it signed off and the certificate issued.

MRC, ref your list:
1. It contains things that are not stipulated by the coding rules. That's my point - dont necessarily beleive your surveyor!
2. It is mgn280 not yellow book. Bart, you're better with yellow book
3. It has omissions (NUC lights and others...)
This coding game can be a right farce. Read the rules yourself, comply with them, and don't take any rubbish advice from surveyors who haven't read the rules. That said BartW, DL is a very good guy and knows his stuff well imo. He's a good engineery type. We only disagreed one item, which he conceded when I showed him the rules

 

[Elessar]

Ellesar I note you say you use RYA as classification society. BartW is using YBDSA. That will affect the requirements. In my book, YBDSA is better and I always code to YBDSA. It's the same set of rules (yellow or mgn280) but the interpretation differs

I get the coding through the YDSA using the yellow book. As you know you do an annual self declaration after the first year. If you ever keep a boat long enough )) it will need to be re inspected after 3 years.
The RYA additionally do an annual training centre inspection on Evenstar. Adds a couple of bit and pieces, but largely the YDSA code is fine.

Anyway, you have a superflous "auto"

 

[BartW]

Bart, you're better with yellow book
....
This coding game can be a right farce. Read the rules yourself, comply with them, and don't take any rubbish advice from surveyors who haven't read the rules. That said BartW, DL is a very good guy and knows his stuff well imo. He's a good engineery type. We only disagreed one item, which he conceded when I showed him the rules

yes, MCA code specs I got from DL and working on are: Category 2 - 60 miles, Yellow book, 15 ppl
I'm not planning to discuss any points with him, I'm not that confident in these matters,
but some polite and friendly approach might help also hopefully,
I'm not sure if he's in for a Belgium beer, or a Pasta Blue Angel

 

[BartW]

thank you all for your answers, and advice,
quite a few interesting points.

I have the NON inflatable LJ's the model with foam block's, (made in Italy), I hope they are approved by MCA

never ever had a manual pump in any of my boats, yes I agree makes sense, (was used to use a bucket )
I think that I will connect a big manual pump with the existing manifold for the different compartments.

 

[jfm]

I get the coding through the YDSA using the yellow book. As you know you do an annual self declaration after the first year. If you ever keep a boat long enough )) it will need to be re inspected after 3 years.
The RYA additionally do an annual training centre inspection on Evenstar. Adds a couple of bit and pieces, but largely the YDSA code is fine.

Anyway, you have a superflous "auto"

Ah ok. We're on same page then: YDSA and yellow. Good stuff and I wouldn't expect anything less from your good self - I did do a double take when you said RYA cos I was thinking surely Ellesar doesn't code to RYA, sheesh!

The self examination thing only applies <15m. Blue Angel is 24m so he needs an annual surveyor visit

OK ref "auto". But TBH I had discounted any chance anyone would buy these days inflatable lifejackets that you have to blow up by mouth. I don't even know where you'd buy those.

 

[Elessar]

thank you all for your answers, and advice,
quite a few interesting points.

I have the NON inflatable LJ's the model with foam block's, (made in Italy), I hope they are approved by MCA

never ever had a manual pump in any of my boats, yes I agree makes sense, (was used to use a bucket )
I think that I will connect a big manual pump with the existing manifold for the different compartments.

I think you can put a diaphragm pump in line with the elctric as the electric will pump through it.

That doesn't help though if the reason you need it is because the electric one is blocked.

Foam ones are fine as long as they are CE marked lifejackets.

 

[Elessar]

OK ref "auto". But TBH I had discounted any chance anyone would buy these days inflatable lifejackets that you have to blow up by mouth. I don't even know where you'd buy those.

free gifts on easyjet hey allow me my moment of pedantry OK!

 

[Elessar]

The self examination thing only applies <15m. Blue Angel is 24m so he needs an annual surveyor visit

didn't know that.

I just found out that I need NUC lights because I'm over 12m, E3 didn't need them.

Anyone know where can you buy a stacked RRW, I've found all round reds but they bottom mount only which means making a stainless frame.

 

[jfm]

didn't know that.

I just found out that I need NUC lights because I'm over 12m, E3 didn't need them.

Anyone know where can you buy a stacked RRW, I've found all round reds but they bottom mount only which means making a stainless frame.

They dont have to be permanently fixed. Tie them to a cord, 1m apart (2m on Bart's boat) and hang from radar arch, with power from cig lighter socket. Scuse the bodginess of this but it makes reasonable sense

 

[Elessar]

They dont have to be permanently fixed. Tie them to a cord, 1m apart (2m on Bart's boat) and hang from radar arch, with power from cig lighter socket. Scuse the bodginess of this but it makes reasonable sense

Ah. I also hadn't clocked the 1m apart bit. Yep the only sensible solution - thanks. I will need to raise the anchor light, if I just let them dangle below the anchor light they won't be visible all round. So I need red red white on a string, and a way of holding it up. Do-able.

Thanks - good tip.

 

[BartW]

didn't know that.

I just found out that I need NUC lights because I'm over 12m, .

I just found out what NUC lights are, and yes Jfm is right, 2m apart
these were not needed in Ital nor Belgium, neither the balls (except one, for anchor)

 

[PilotWolf]

Some mates on here confirmed that my English is good enough to carry the British ensign on Blue Angel,
So we decided to change flag from Belgium to Brit.

at the previous owner the boat used to be commercially registered in Italy (Rina coding) and when we bought her 2y ago, we had her coded according Belgium comm. ship regulations, and now we ‘re in the process to have her MCA coded.

The week after next we will have the surveyor (DL) on board for the first inspection, most items from the requirements list are clear (and present from previous coding), but some have to be updated.
In order to have some “practical” answers or solutions, I post my questions on here, instead of immediately asking for surveyors “straight” advice.


Q’s:

1) Emergency escape & embarkation lightning,
apart from one or two torches should we place some extra lights ?

2) Minimum one hand -bilge -pump,
We have 2 strong 24v bilge pumps (in a non redundant config.) with manifold to the separate bilge compartments, and one extra automatic bilge pump in the stern section,
And as a final resort, the engines cooling could be switched to pump water out of the e/r bilges.
What type of hand pump makes sense, and where to place that (in a 70ft boat) ?

3) Emergency steering facility,
unfortunately I throw away the old corroded steel backup tiller bar for the rudders, but is that necessary?
In emergency, I can steer the boat by the twin engines.
I could reproduce the old system if really needed

4) What is the right wording for passenger exclusion notices, area’s where they can’t pass during navigation,
something like: no passage during navigation,….
Another label is: Keep closed at sea

Safety inventory:

5) Solas 1 or Solas 2 rescue signals Card,
is it OK if I laminate the MCA brochure page,
Or should I buy a real one ?

6) Safety harness (2pcs), do I really need that ?

7) Thermal Protective Aids,
we have lots of bed blankets, is this OK, or do we need the aluminum foil sheets ?

8) Training manual, and
Instrument for on-board maintenance of live saving appliances (in MCG Training manual)
I have “The Medical guide” which I have never used yet
And I have all the RYA Yachmaster and STCW manuals

9) Radar reflector, what type, and where to place ?

10) Emergency torch, one for each cabin ? (see also point 1)


11) Med Kit&First aid, (Merchant shipping notice MSN1768 scale C
I have several medical boxes, according Ital (3) and Bel (1) coding,
does it make sence to sort out the list and see what’s in these kit’s, or just buy another new box according MCA standard ?



Where best to buy all these safety items (MCA approved)

Any advice is welcome,
Thanks a lot !

1. Torches in each cabin - ideally on permanent charge. Florescent sign/markings so you can find them in the dark. Florescent escape signs showing escape hatches/ladders and direction signs to escape hatches. Think worse case scenario with no on board power.

2. I don't have the books with me but consider the biggest portable hand pump you can store plus hoses to reach any part of the bilges and then over the side. Other alternative is if you have a bilge system with manifolds it can be plumbed into that with valve system to replace the electric pump, but it doesn't sound like you have this system. Otherwise dependant on your watertight bulkheads/layout then one per section ideally.

3. Emergency steering required.

4. Again standard labels - I think Sefton is a UK company that sells most of what you want including the ones I mentioned in 1. Or ebay...

5.You are aiming for a professional type vessel - just buy the proper cards, they are not expensive in the over all scheme of things.

6. Yes. Crew may have to work on foredeck, etc. in poor weather.

7. No again TPAs are a specific item and not expensive. Technically a TPA is not a silver blanket. Google Thermal Protective Aid for pictures and you'll see what I mean.

8. The training manual is subjective but best thing is to write it yourself as a large part is vessel specific. Include MOB, fire, flooding, collision, medivac, helicopter operations. A lot of it is generic too but things like where the extinguisher and fuel shut offs are need to be included. A written safety brief and idiot cards make good appendices. Make up a spreadsheet of all the safety equipment with serial numbers and expiry dates and have a weekly/bi-weekly box to tick that some one has checked each part of the safety equipment.

9. Buy the best and mount as high as possible. Check the Quitqi (? sp) research as many of the passive ones are useless.

10. One in each 'space' so each cabin, engine room, tiller flat, etc. One by each access door to the deck.

11. The medical kit depends on your area of operation. It's easier to just buy the kits ready made. You will also have to jump through the hoops to get some of the drugs as they are prescription only.

I/we always dealt with Survitec in Southampton. They are probably not the cheapest but they are helpful and do know there stuff.

I don't know the surveyor in question but be advised that you are also liable to a MCA surveyor 'dropping by' and they aren't working for you so get it right with DL's help if need be.

PM me if you want so templates for check lists etc.

W.

 

[prv]

Check the Quitqi (? sp) research as many of the passive ones are useless.

This had me flummoxed, until I realised you probably mean qinetiq . As in "kinetic".

Pete

 

[jfm]

1. Torches in each cabin - ideally on permanent charge. Florescent sign/markings so you can find them in the dark. Florescent escape signs showing escape hatches/ladders and direction signs to escape hatches.

I have no problem with this as a suggestion but it makes sense on this thread to distinguish between what the law requires (as interpreted by the classification soc in question: YBDSA) and what people think is good. The above is not required by the yellow book. There is no clause in yellow book mentioning this stuff. I dont doubt that some surveyor somewhere might have demanded it, because many surveyors seem to lose sight of the rules, but it aint in the rules

 

[BartW]

a compeletely different item;

a few people talked about emergency hatches,

our Vip cabin in the bow, doesn't have one (compared to some more modern similar boats)

our master cabin doesnt have an emergency hatch either, its the main cabin facing the engine room, underneath the saloon,
and I think that many other similar size FB boats haven't got one either,

isn't that an issue for safety ?

I'm just just curious

 

[BartW]

I have no problem with this as a suggestion but it makes sense on this thread to distinguish between what the law requires (as interpreted by the classification soc in question: YBDSA) and what people think is good. The above is not required by the yellow book. There is no clause in yellow book mentioning this stuff. I dont doubt that some surveyor somewhere might have demanded it, because many surveyors seem to lose sight of the rules, but it aint in the rules

John,

"Emergency torch (one for each cabin)" is on DL's list,
are you sure this is not in the yellow book ?
then I'll asc DL about it,

 

[BartW]

7) Thermal Protective Aids,
............You need the proper foil TPAs. But if you buy Solas liferafts or grab bags, which you need, these will be included

our 2 live rafts (8p) are just now at the inspection company in Antwerp, as the dates were passed,
I'm not sure what certfication they were, I could call that company,
should I ask to make them solas B if the aren't ?
If they are Solas B, do I still need a separate Grab bag, or two ?

 

[MapisM]

our Vip cabin in the bow, doesn't have one (compared to some more modern similar boats)
our master cabin doesnt have an emergency hatch either

Funny you mention it, I was thinking about that, B.
Not sure about MCA requirements, but I've heard of (bigger, actually) boats built to class where escape hatches were indeed required, both in the bow and master cabins.
No big deal for the bow cabin, normally - just a matter of fitting a hatch on the ceiling, which would probably be a relatively easy job also on BA.
But for the master cabin, it might be tricky, depending on whether there is a suitable free area on the galley/saloon above it or not.
And it would be a shame to ruin the lovely wooden floor in the saloon, anyway.
But I would actually be surprised if "only" MCA coding would require that.

 

[PilotWolf]

I have no problem with this as a suggestion but it makes sense on this thread to distinguish between what the law requires (as interpreted by the classification soc in question: YBDSA) and what people think is good. The above is not required by the yellow book. There is no clause in yellow book mentioning this stuff. I dont doubt that some surveyor somewhere might have demanded it, because many surveyors seem to lose sight of the rules, but it aint in the rules

I did say I don't have the books to hand. Not sure which part the torches or the fluorescent signs you mean but I am pretty sure the signs are required. I suggested the torches as he specified lighting.

W.

 

[PilotWolf]

This had me flummoxed, until I realised you probably mean qinetiq . As in "kinetic".

Pete

That's the one!

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/radar reflectors report.pdf

W.