Coastguard pay

Re: A great line...

[ QUOTE ]
As someone else has said, pvb seems very well informed. Could it be that he is in the MCA management group...

[/ QUOTE ]If you'd bothered to read this thread, you'll see I've already said I have no personal agenda on this. Any knowledge I have on the subject is simply available on the internet to you or anyone else who cares to spend a few minutes looking. I don't work for, or have any links with, the MCA and I don't know anyone who does.

[ QUOTE ]
Therefore to keep these men and women when they join and are being trained.should they not have a decent wage and not feel the need to go to other emergency services control rooms where they will get more money?? If we are not careful I can see station closures being the next thing on the agenda and that will affect us all

[/ QUOTE ]This is just scaremongering. MCA staff are not leaving in droves. In 06/07, only 77 staff resigned - a fairly low percentage of the 1200 or so employed.
 
Not true...

[ QUOTE ]
Just to put PVB's £31m divided by 1200 into perspective...

That is the GROSS SALARY bill for MCGA equivalent to £25833. That is not the salary of the individuals, but includes those fun things such as employers NI and employers pension contribution,

[/ QUOTE ]Not true. Look at the 2007 MCA Annual Report, page 50, and you'll see that wages & salaries were £32,252,000 plus £8,598,000 in social security and pension costs. Incidentally, when I quoted £31million (rather than £32million), I had notionally deducted £1million for Executive Board pay, so that the average salary would be more realistic.

All this information is freely available on the internet - why don't you check it before accusing me?
 
Re: A great line...

A lot of sense in your posts pvb.

The true measure of an adequate reward system is whether there are enough recruits, sufficiently to replace staff turnover/retirement rates. The MCA do not appear to have a recruitment problem.

Perhaps this is because the job has greater non-monetary rewards than many others. Longish periods of low activity, interspersed with periods of high activity and excitement, when individuals feel they really are making a good contribution . . .

And, what does one do with the quiet time?

No one is forcing recruits to join. They may choose other jobs at any time . . . and if they start to do so, that's time to think about the job rewards. There's a market place out there. Let it work.
 
Re: A great line...

In other areas of the public sector, pay levels are geared, in the main, to ensuring the recruitment and retention of staff. If the CG is not experiencing such problems, there is no strong argument for increasing pay. We naturally feel some affinity with the GC staff, given our shared interest, but some of the posts above demonstrate more sentimentality than objectivity. Would you offer to pay a member of staff £25K if you knew you could get him/her for £20K? Would you argue so passionately for the lady clerk in a VAT office? Yeah - of course you would!!!
 
Re: A great line...

Unemployment in the UK is runing at almost historical low levels, anyone who employs staff (And thats probably most people here) will know just how difficult it is in the private sector to get good staff......

My opinion on coastguard pay is mixed, however, if the coasties dont like the pay situation, then they should get another job....

I pay above average in our industry to keep our staff, and I know that if I treat my people like crap, then they leave....

I utterly fail to understand why civil servants will stick with jobs that treat them so poorly, (Especially nurses, who have diabolical shift patterns, poor pay, and generally crap managment.) If the coasties just voted with their feet, then the pay would quickly rise to retain the staff.

If they dont vote with their feet, then they are probably on the right money.

This adminstration has screwed the pooch royally, Its time the problems came home to roost for this Government, and I think that these people should simply say f*** it, Im off. Dont arse about complaining, it plays into Labours hands...Just get another job and leaveem in the proverbial.

If at the end of the day your not prepared to get a new job to improve your lot in life, then dont expect your employer to be motivated to improve your t and c's, I mean, if you dont care, why should he??

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Don\'t let the facts get in the way...

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The average pay is meaningless anyway as it is distorted by large salarys paid to the managers and pen pushers further up the ladder.

a large number must be on considerably less than the average quoted.

Why anyone would begrudge them a decent living wage is beyond me.

quoting gross figures is another example of the spin that inevitably occurs during a deadlocked dispute but apparerntly is ok from one side but not from the other? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]If you've read my reply to botheras, you'll see he was wrong to accuse me of using gross figures. In 2007, MCA wages & salaries were £32,252,000 plus £8,598,000 in social security and pension costs. Incidentally, when I quoted £31million (rather than £32million), I had notionally deducted £1million for Executive Board pay, so that the average salary would be more realistic (and anticipating the point you've made about averages).

I'm always amazed when people post something that's total twaddle, and then others join in like sheep agreeing with them. That's what's happened in this thread - the first post was completely wrong. I just pointed out that it was wrong, and introduced some facts. But facts do get in the way of a union campaign, don't they? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: Not true...

"..... you'll see that wages & salaries were £32,252,000 plus £8,598,000 in social security and pension costs ..."

This hasn't much relevance. The MCA was formed by combining two maritime agencies: the CG is one and the other is the Maritime agencies which includes surveyors etc? The MCA employed 1000 in 2003 of whom approx 400 were engaged in SAR activities and quite what the other 600 do ....

The new CEO brings NuLabour Birt-speak to the 2007 accnts when he describes the 1023 employees as "frontline service deliverers and direct support staff".

But, the problems in the CG run deeper than pay. You got some insight into what's going on thro' Gwyneth Dunwoody's (Transport Chair in Parliament) last bashing of Storey/Bligh over "junior" staff having to assume responsibilities above their pay grade, because of absenteeism of their seniors, and who made serious errors.
 
Re: Not true...

I really can't believe some of what I've read here...

"CG have'nt a clue in overfalls" ...uh ? Is this an general insult or just a vein attempt to appear witty?

"Let the market operate". OK then, lets. So why not follow the air traffic model - privatise the MCA, then generate it's revenue from charging its customers (i.e. sailors in this example). Anyone voting for a SAR levy to be paid compulsorily by all vessels transiting / using UK waters?

"The RNLI do all the important bits"... OK then, so lets give all boats a series of telephone numbers for each lifeboat station and let them do their own SAR coordination. Assuming they know where they are, which is their nearest station, what its capabilities are, whether it is tasked elsewhere or on standby for another developing situation, etc...

Nick - thanks for putting the picture so clearly. To be straight, I don't agree with the role of CWA - it was a bit like the Police creating PCSOs to save a few quid. True, CG auxilliaries did the role before, but the answer should have been to create more full Watch Officer roles and reduce the overhigh headcount at MCA headquarters.

Following on from which, as others have said, the MCA pay list is grossly distorted by the numbers of non-operational staff based at Southampton who, frankly, do nothing for the front line service provided by either HMCG or the other operational MCA divisions.

I don't have any role within the MCA, but I do work in the SAR sector and regularly deal with the French SAR services, who I can assure you would be out on strike instantly should their pay be like HMCGs!

Simon
 
Re: Not true...

In reply to pvp - does he think that the 1200 MCA staff he numbers all work in Operations rooms?I believe the number of Control room staff is more like 25-30 per station with the rest made up of management,surveyors etc at H.Q and various depts.
Also with regard to being paid for all hours on watch, I think you will find that although they do 12 hour shifts they actually get paid for 42 hours as mealbreaks are unpaid even if they are recalled to assist with a Mayday or distress incident. We have had Coastguard stations close in the past so why will it not happen again??
 
Re: A great line...

Having just read this thread.....

pvb - you say "People who don't know the facts can't form a worthwhile opinion. I just think it's worth looking at the facts.
". Perhaps you should follow your own mantra as most of your argument is, in fact, wrong.

Coastguard watch assistants have a starting salary which is just on the minimum wage. They are also paid a shift allowance of 25% which they are entitled to as they work 24 hours a day. This is standard for anyone in any profession who is working unsociable hours.
A Coastguard Watch Assistant does a year's training before taking exams to qualify, with no financial reward for qualifying.

You mention allowances and uniform; if you had done your research before making sweeping statements, you would discover that McDonalds also provide uniforms for their staff, in addition to giving them a meal allowance.

Again, if you had actually bothered to find out what a full-time Coastguard does, you would discover how wrong you are. Coastguard Watch Assistants are not always 'newbies', some people who have had a previous career at sea will stay at that grade for many years if they do not want to do the exams to progress further. And Coastguard Watch Assistants are not always supervised. Everyone in an operations room works as a team, but experienced Watch Assistants are capable of dealing with the initial actions of incidents and other requests without recourse to someone of a higher grade.

If you contacted the Coastguard via 999 or radio in an emergency, there is a high chance that it will be a Coastguard Watch Assistant who picks up your call or answers you on the radio. He or she will be able to ask you the appropriate questions, even if you are in a panic, to get all the information they need, and will give you advice as to how you may be able to help yourself before help gets to you.

Other members of the team, who may be Watch Assistants or Watch Officers, will be contacting lifeboats, Coastguard volunteer teams, helicopters, ambulances, police, fire brigade, and anyone else required to deal with the incident in question. They will also be drawing up search plans if necessary; if your boat is drifting, they need to know how to find you quickly - involving calculating where you will drift using wind and tide information. The operations room will then fully co-ordinate your rescue and retain total control of the scene until the rescue is complete.

You also said:
"Not sure whether you or I know exactly what they do. In 2006, watchkeeping staff coordinated on average 41.33 incidents each - allowing for holidays that's about 1 a week. And "incidents" aren't necessarily maydays from boaty folk, they include a lot of things like walkers late returning, old people going missing, etc. "

Well, you don't know what they do. It is a lot more than answering emergency calls. If you're on a boat and want the weather forecast - who do you call? If you want to know how to get hold of a particular marina or harbour - who do you call? Who warns you of drifting hazards that might put a hole in your expensive yacht and sink it, throwing you into the water?
In addition, you would do well to remember that Britain is an island, and a fair amount of what we use comes in by sea........ all these professional seafarers need support in the form of weather forecasts and information, and medical and other back-up if required.

All the above services and more are provided by the Coastguard.

You also mentioned nurses's salaries... from what I can find out, nurses start on about £19k....... even with the shift allowance, a Coastguard is on about £15k I think!
In another post, you said that MCA staff were not leaving in droves - 77 left in 2006/7. Do you know how many of those were Coastguards? No. The fire service control room operators' salary starts at £19k, rising to £24k when you start doing shifts and include shift allowance. And those operators do not co-ordinate the rescue.

I believe the Coastguards are asking for comparability with the other emergency services, and I believe there has been more than one independent study which shows that they are underpaid for the job they do in relation to the other emergency services.

The information on salaries I have given is freely available on the internet, and the information about Coastguards comes from actually having been in an operations room and found out what their job entails. I strongly suggest you do likewise as a lot of what you have posted is factually incorrect.
 
Re: A great line...

I suggest you go to a Coastguard station and find out how wrong you are.
There are only 18 Coastguard stations round the coast - they cannot possibly tell you whether it is foggy where you are, but I think you will find that most of them, if asked, will give you the weather conditions outside their window - if their window looks out over the sea (they don't all) and if it is relevant to you. They do understand it, and every Coastguard has done at least a year's worth of training with exams at the end of it.

I have been given very good advice from the Coastguard, and all those I have spoken to or met have been great. In addition, it is very obvious that you do not have a clue how they work. With the exception of some engineers and coxswains on the big lifeboats, all lifeboat crews have full-time jobs. They are alerted by a pager system, which is set off by the Coastguard. They do not listen in on the radio all the time, and are therefore highly unlikely to pick up your Mayday. They work with the Coastguard - the Coastguard pick up your Mayday, and then decide the best way of helping you, and co-ordinate your rescue.

Direct contact with the lifeboats is all very well, but would you want to swim in freezing water for an hour waiting for a lifeboat (in some areas, it can take at least that long to get one to you) or to spend 10 minutes in the water before being picked up by a rib belonging to the warship that's only a few minutes away??? That's what the Coastguard do - it's called co-ordination. They are NOT just a call centre - go and visit one!
 
Re: A great line...

I would like to add a copy of an email sent by a Watch Manager to the CEO of the MCA recently.

He has asked me to post this as an example to the grading within the CG and also the poor response received.

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I sent this e-mail to the new CEO a couple of months ago, to highlight this problem within the MCA, and it is a signifcant part of the Unions arguement with HQ. The reply I received was typical of a politican. He replied, but he didn't answer.

I promise all the details below are true and factual. Would you mind posting it on the web site for me ?
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Mr Cardy, Sir, Peter,

I have read with interest the notice you sent out on the 16th January regarding Prospect's intention to publish a vote of no confidence in your ability to deliver their pay rise.

That's a shame. It appears to me to be somewhat too early to judge a new post-holder when you have been with the MCA for less than a year. Personally, having met you on a couple of occasions, it appears to me that you are very professional, you have a good grasp of the current state of the MCA, and I imagine you have already decided on what needs to be done to move the Agency and it's staff forward in a positive manner.

I am also aware that they must be a thousand priorities banging at your door, most of which need to have been fixed last year. Welcome to the Maritime and Coastguard Agency.

I wonder if I might contribute towards one of those subjects, notably the Pay and Grading of professional Coastguards.

I have long since considered the discrepancies between our pay and that of equivalent grades in the other Emergency Services, and wondered why; and I suspect I might have left the MCA to join the Police or Fire service if my 40 years maritime experience would contribute towards the coordination of their incidents; but as I am a maritime specialist, it makes sense for me to stay with the Competent Authority.

What rankles me more is the obvious injustice within our own organization.

I have taken the liberty of attaching a scan of three recent Administration Officer (AO) vacancies within the MCA. If you would care to take a glance at them you will note that the AO Survey mostly deals with mail, routine phone calls, database entries and booking accommodation and travel arrangements. In it's own right, it is obviously a responsible job. The AO SAR Branch at HQ takes minutes, does a little research, inputs data to the mnet (MCA Intranet), provides admin support to the MEIR (Marine Emergencies Incident Room at HQ) and SAR OPs Officers, booking accommodation and travel arrangements, and checks accounts received and payable. Again, a reasonably responsible job.

The third document is for a Watch Officer (WO) vacancy at MRCC Holyhead, who is responsible for all Search and Rescue and other Emergency situations; the details of the vacancy require the post holder "to thoroughly understand and operate complex equipment, and to train others in its use (12 month training course and contractual-conditional exams). To understand the routing of emergency information within the 999 system; to fully understand the complexities of GMDSS (2 qualifying courses and exams), knowledge of UK, flank and world-wide SAR in addition to SAR response from other Emergency Services; search area determination, area coverage, (refresher course every 5 years); the selection, alerting and tasking of SAR units, survivor recovery, delivery and reception, with delegated responsibility to act as SMC (refresher course and assessment every 5 years) deputising for the grade above; to maintain a high degree of local knowledge of own and paired Districts (exam every year); provide advice and support to the CP&S branch when required. To assist and undertake PR (presumably for the PR branch) and AP (presumably for the Risk Analysis and Prevention branch), and train others. The Watch Officer (and other Ops Rooms grades) have to deal with life-threatening situations and occasionally find themselves talking to someone who may soon be dead, especially if the Ops Room staff do not manage to obtain sufficient information to effect a successful rescue.

In addition to the refresher exams at regular intervals through the WOs career they are also subject to Operational Standards and Training Audits every eighteen months or so. If any of the above goes wrong, the incumbent is subject to an official internal enquiry where his/her views may/not be taken into account and then subject to re-training.

Excuse me for asking, but could you please advise me how the MCA justifies restricting the Watch Officer grade to that of an AO when the responsibilities far outweigh those of the previously mentioned roles. This is injustice.

Might I ask if you agree with my thoughts, and if so, might I ask if you have a plan to redress this issue ?

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For external readers information, the Coastguard entry grade post of Coastguard Watch Assistant has more responsibility and training requirements (similar to those of the Watch Officers, but to a lesser standard) than the AO's at HQ, but are treated as a grade below: the civil service grade AA, and after 12 month training program and passing contract-conditional qualifying exams, they are then paid the government's basic minimum wage.

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End of email
 
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