Coastguard pay

Re: A great line...

If you've ever been party to an 'incident' of which many happen, which involve helicopters, RNLI, etc, you'd be happy to be on the receiving end.
 
Re: A great line...

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still not a great deal for what they are expected to do

[/ QUOTE ]Not sure whether you or I know exactly what they do. In 2006, watchkeeping staff coordinated on average 41.33 incidents each - allowing for holidays that's about 1 a week. And "incidents" aren't necessarily maydays from boaty folk, they include a lot of things like walkers late returning, old people going missing, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]But they still have to put in the hours on duty to provide 24x7 cover, and then be highly responsive and responsible when the need arises. I am sure if they get their sleeping bag out, and get 8hours kip on a night shift, they would be in deep trouble.
 
Re: A great line...

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Have you got any form of connection or vested interest, pvb, or are your comments purely a personal opinion?

Not wanting to be picky - just interested to know where you are coming from.

[/ QUOTE ]Good question. No, I've no personal agenda here. If you look at posts which have appeared on these forums (especially The Lounge) you'll find there's been an ongoing consensus of disapproval of government "spin". Now the Coastguard pay issue is just an example of union "spin" - press releases with memorable quotes aimed as tabloid fodder. People who don't know the facts can't form a worthwhile opinion. I just think it's worth looking at the facts.

At the end of the day, this is a forum for exchanging views. That's all we're doing.
 
Re: A great line...

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If you've ever been party to an 'incident' of which many happen, which involve helicopters, RNLI, etc, you'd be happy to be on the receiving end.

[/ QUOTE ]I'd be happy to see an ambulance if I needed one, should we start a campaign on ambulance despatchers' pay?
 
Re: A great line...

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I am sure if they get their sleeping bag out, and get 8hours kip on a night shift, they would be in deep trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]Nobody has suggested that, so your mention of it is bewildering.
 
Re: A great line...

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At the end of the day, this is a forum for exchanging views. That's all we're doing.

[/ QUOTE ] Spot on, 100% agree with you. So putting aside the union spin - I'm happy to do this too - and taking into account what you believe to be the real facts, are you supportive of the CG's argument that they are underpaid for their role?
 
Re: A great line...

to clarify my point, their working time is measurable by the number of hours they have to be on duty, not what they have to do while they are there. They have to be ready to perform at anytime during a watch, so they should could paid for all that time.
 
Re: A great line...

As I understand it, coastguards are paid on the same scale as the Administrative Grading system in the Civil Service. This means that those on the lowest rung of the Coastguard pay scale, Coastguard Watch Assistants, are paid the same as an Administrative Assistant in the Civil Service. CWAs are the newest people in the coastguard service, they work under supervision, they're learning and developing their skills. In time, they'll earn more. Maybe not a huge amount more, but then you have to balance this with their workload and other factors. Many would say that a fully-qualified nurse has more day-to-day life-threatening situations to cope with, but their pay starts at £17060 - not a million miles away from the £15K a CWA can expect. So, on balance, I don't think the CWAs are greatly underpaid.
 
Re: A great line...

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to clarify my point, their working time is measurable by the number of hours they have to be on duty, not what they have to do while they are there. They have to be ready to perform at anytime during a watch, so they should could paid for all that time.

[/ QUOTE ]But they are paid for all the time they're on watch. What on earth are you implying?
 
Relative wealth

<they should could paid for all that time. > They should. And it's just as well for yachtsmen to remember that the Coastguard watching over them are unlikely to be able to afford a yacht of their own. A little humility and some solidarity with them is called for in the circumstances.
 
Re: A great line...

[quoteBut they are paid for all the time they're on watch. What on earth are you implying?

[/ QUOTE ]Your implication was that they only do with one incident per week so why should they be better paid. my point is that they are 'working' all the time they are on duty, regardless of how many incidents they have to manage.
 
Re: A great line...

No, I didn't imply that at all. They most certainly should be, and indeed are, paid for all the hours they work.
 
Re: A great line...

As someone else has said, pvb seems very well informed. Could it be that he is in the MCA management group where those on the front line 24 hours a day,365 days a year are poorly paid for the work they do, the training they have to do and exams they have to pass to stay in the job. Most are not there for the money and enjoy providiing the best rescue service in the world.Therefore to keep these men and women when they join and are being trained.should they not have a decent wage and not feel the need to go to other emergency services control rooms where they will get more money?? If we are not careful I can see station closures being the next thing on the agenda and that will affect us all
 
Re: A great line...

Having been on the other end of the equation a few times. BrendonS will verify.

I'm not to sure what the coast guards are qualified for.

Yes, good ones are very comforting when in trouble.

But they have not got a clue, if your in an overfall situation. There mostly. Life boat or not.

They do not understand sea conditions and wont look out the window, to see if it is foggy or not. Can only speak as I find.

Shout Mayday, you get a life boat, there experience, sends the right one, with the right equipment. Probably on it's way before they got a shout from the CG. Think there listening too!

Talking to Brixham CG a few months ago, then going back three times. OK the weather wos crap. But getting down to it.

It's all about beaurocrasy. But took a bit of nailing on the head.

The coast guard dont offer advise. You think your in trouble or not. If so, they alert the life boat, it's them that do the important bits, maybe it should be a direct line. Then get help from folk that know what there talking about.

In short the Cg have been reduced to just a call centre, pay like wise. Why not when theres a free service????
 
Re: A great line...

Have you ever bothered to call into a CG station to see what they actually do routinely and in a distress situation?? Lifeboats,helicopters etc are in fact requested and sent by CG operations room staff who work out search areas and plans. Do you think Lifeboat crews are just sitting in the boat all day waiting for you to shout Mayday. They do have full time jobs to do
 
Re: A great line...

Just to put PVB's £31m divided by 1200 into perspective...

That is the GROSS SALARY bill for MCGA equivalent to £25833. That is not the salary of the individuals, but includes those fun things such as employers NI and employers pension contribution,
 
Re: A great line...

The average pay is meaningless anyway as it is distorted by large salarys paid to the managers and pen pushers further up the ladder.

a large number must be on considerably less than the average quoted.

Why anyone would begrudge them a decent living wage is beyond me.

quoting gross figures is another example of the spin that inevitably occurs during a deadlocked dispute but apparerntly is ok from one side but not from the other? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Dear Forum,

I have posted on this subject before, as many of you will know. However as the issue is once again in the media I thought I might add my thoughts to the pot. I want everyone to be aware that I am not exactly a neutral party, being a Watch Assistant at a busy station in England. I hope you will forgive me for being a little guarded about which one, and any further details regarding my identity. As someone else suggested it would seem there are one or two MCA management types viewing and contributing to the debate, and I have no wish to be reprimanded for voicing an opinion. Rather I would prefer to outline a few points and let everyone make their own minds up.
If one was playing devils advocate I suppose the first thing that could be said would be “If you want more money, go and get a better job”, which is fair enough however at some point this option becomes self destructive. If the maritime community wants a professional, well trained, well motivated and committed CG service then surely the staff have to be paid a half decent wage. Otherwise you fall into the trap of high staff turnover, low morale, poor commitment etc… Essentially if you want a professional to answer your distress/999 call then you have to pay them as such. As I’m sure you might imagine not one of us comes to work with the intention of providing a sub-standard SAR service, but eventually people become disillusioned and incapable of living on the wages. Pay peanuts get monkeys really is true, eventually people and their expertise move on and you have a transient staff who at an extreme end of the scale become a glorified call centre and not SAR coordinators.
In my humble opinion, referring to the number of incidents run by each staff member/MRCC as an indicator of their financial worth is a rather poor argument. Essentially the nature of the beast is a waiting game, until some poor unfortunate requires our help we remain on “standby”. Providing 24/7 cover is like that, of course some stations are busier than others, and some times of year are busier. Does that mean one should be paid less in the winter because you are doing “less” work? At the end of the day it is the ability of an MRCC to swing in to action at a moments notice, and apply a considerable amount of professional knowledge/ability to a given situation that separates us from our colleagues in other emergency services who by and large tend to dispatch the nearest unit.
Just to clarify the whole wages situation, the first post of this thread was correct (until recently) with regard to basic salary being £11000 (approx). This has now improved to the dizzy heights of £12,000 due to an increase in the national minimum wage. I still have the lovely letter from HR telling me I was getting a temporary increase in pay to comply with the legislation. This equates to £5.52 per hour. In addition to this every watch keeping CG gets 25% extra to compensate for the anti social hours and disruption to ones personal life. If it wasn’t for this allowance I could not afford to do the job. It is however an allowance and is thus not part of my salary, if I do overtime it is calculated from the £5.52 rate.
It might surprise readers to know that upon successful completion of a CG’s professional exams there is no wage increase or remuneration. You only go up pay bands by time done, that’s just how the civil service works I guess. Shame there is no reward for the best part of a years studying though.
With regard to a Watch Assistants experience, I think it would be fair to say there are very few around the country who do not have some marine background. Be that RN, MN or indeed leisure. At the end of the day the criteria doesn’t require any marine background but who do you think gets the job when it comes to interview, person straight from school or person with a few years of practical seagoing experience? That is quite correct as far as I am concerned, it is important CG does not develop a them and us mentality. Furthermore the quote that Watch Assistants never work “unsupervised” is a clear fallacy and is either generated from management believing their own waffle, or from someone who has never been into an MRCC. On a hectic day every member of staff makes operational decisions, rightly or wrongly someone has to act.
Anyway these are my thoughts and the ramblings of a disgruntled but optimistic minion.
Finally I urge everyone out there to arrange a visit to your nearest MRCC, get the tour from the guys and girls on watch, say hello, glean an understanding of what happens at the other end of the radio/telephone and most importantly meet the people that make things happen when you need help.

Regards

Nick
 
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