Coastal skipper vs Yachtmaster?

[jimi]

I did both CS and the YM practical exams and enjoyed both. I did it as part of the learning and the CS was challenging with MOB under sail, blind nav, pilotage picking up a buoy under sail. The examiner said at the time his criteria for YM and CS skipper was simililar he just expect YM candidates to be more polished performers.

BTW my YM exam included a MOB at night under sail, night entry to Newton creek in fog without GPS, finding the Brambles post at night again without GPS amongst other things.

I reckon do both if your objective is learning, if its just a ticket you want, then go to the train station!

 

[flaming]

This is interesting, as I was supprised at how "easy" my YM exam was, almost no night sailing and little blind nav.

It was blowing 30kts though, and anyone that says that a MOB exercise under sail in 30kts with the extra pressure of an examiner hanging onto the backstay is easy is lying!

 

[jimi]

[ QUOTE ]
This is interesting, as I was supprised at how "easy" my YM exam was, almost no night sailing and little blind nav.

It was blowing 30kts though, and anyone that says that a MOB exercise under sail in 30kts with the extra pressure of an examiner hanging onto the backstay is easy is lying!

[/ QUOTE ]

It was a bit of fun really .. the instructor told me at the end of the exam that he knew that I knew what I was doing as soon as he stepped on board and was just trying to make things as interesting as possible for all of us;-)

I enjoyed it and my mate that was doing CS did as well!

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
This is interesting, as I was supprised at how "easy" my YM exam was, almost no night sailing and little blind nav.


[/ QUOTE ]

It could be all in the preparation?

I made more boat handling cock ups than I could ever have imagined during my 6 days of prep. - to the point where, on day 5 at about 3pm, I said - "I've had a think about it, and have decided to forget it, and cancel the exam. If that fender goes over the side again, you can pick it up yourself!", in the nicest way, of course.

Over it went and, just as I was about to get a bit angry, Rob, (instructor), said that it might be good for me to relax and watch him do a few exercises on the way back to the marina - he did, and it was.

We had a chat later and he suggested that I was doing fine - He was pushing for 100%, kind of hoping for 80%. He said that he couldnt really push for 80%, as he might only get 50%... sounded logical. Then he offered to come sailing with us for an extra afternoon, have some lunch, do a few exercises, but no pressure... which was good.

On the exam day, I probably got a bit lucky in that the wind varied from about 5 to 10 knots, and almost everything went as smoothly as you could have hoped for. I got one sound signal wrong, and added a variation where I should have subtracted it once. On boat handling, the wind was so light that the boat wouldnt stop anchoring under sail - the examiner backed the main for me, and made a kind comment.

So it seems that if the training pushes you beyond what the exam requires, you should be well prepared, and it should be fairly straightforward. In addition, it seems OK to make a few mistakes, as long as the overall impression is that you know what you are doing, you dont flap, and dont look like you are going to kill someone.

Just my perception

 

[flaming]

Actually mine said something similar, about half way through when he'd made sure we made last orders!

 

[ex-Gladys]

During the YM's exam, the candidate tied "Bob" (pick up buoy with a large shackle) used for MOB to a rope tail. The examiner a while later picked it yup and heaved it, and of course, it stayed in the cockpit... comment from candidate "We've had a lot of issues with Bob going over the side this week and so have insited on hime wearing a safety line"

Much mirth from all including the examiner

 

[DavenHelen]

As a fairly inexperienced sailor, my plan has been:-

Comp Crew - Done
Yachtmaster Theory - Done
Day Skipper Practical - To Do

That should give me the ability to start chartering and then "learn" how to sail....and decide how much further I want to go.

 

[georgeo]

My experience was similar to Richard_Faulkners. There was a girl doing CS exam with me, she did the same exam but, as pointed out, there seemed to be less expectation from the examiner for her, and she did no blind nav.
I have done a LOT of professional exams, and my experience in the YM practical was right up there with the worst of them. We started at 1500, did not anchor up until about 0200, off again at 0800, finish at 1500. Just the 2 candidates, one up top, the other down below being grilled! (alternating obviously). Before turning in, the other candidate and I were reflecting on the experience whilst she had a fag. "We are paying good money for this, we must be mad...." But I learnt a lot too. Inevitably the miistakes mounted up over the exam period, and I thought no way had I passed. But I did, mainly, I think, because the examiner noted that I knew when I had made a mistake and then took action to correct it. Best of luck to all who are about to do the exam, I think the bit of paper is worth it at the end. But we all know we still have a lot to learn

 

[KenMcCulloch]

[ QUOTE ]
.....the instructor told me at the end of the exam that he knew that I knew what I was doing as soon as he stepped on board and was just trying to make things as interesting as possible for all of us;-)

I enjoyed it and my mate that was doing CS did as well!

[/ QUOTE ]
Examiners do vary quite a lot and some just enjoy seeing you suffer! A friend is a very senior examiner and tells me that like the one mentioned above he can tell within a short time of coming aboard how likely the candidate is to pass or not.
When I was actively involved in sail training I underwent several staff assessments; the assessment to be a 1st mate with OYC in the mid 1990s was like a yachtmaster with bells and whistles. It lasted a week and was possibly the most fun I've ever had on a boat. One day I was navigating down the Yorkshire coast and every time I went below some device such as radar, GPS, echo sounder had been covered with masking tape to stop me using it. Another day I was making Lunch when a young trainee was detailed to call me on deck with the words 'Ken the wheel's gone'. The wheel had in fact been removed and the emergency tiller was no sooner in operation than a MoB was presented (in imaginary fog, stay within 50m of the casualty), and then the main halyard 'broke'. This was on a 22m ketch. What a larf.

 

[alldownwind]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any point in doing CS before YM? They both appear to be taught at the same time, is there a difference other than the criteria to start the course?

[/ QUOTE ]
When I did it (10 years ago) the only difference was the amount of skippering time you already had. At the end of my practical exam the instructor said "If you had the required number of hours (whatever it was) I would give the YM. As it is, I can't, it can only be CS".
The theory and practical for both were the same. And they both included Blind Nav.

 

[kalessin]

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but you can complete a RYA Coastal Skipper practical five-day course (and get a certificate to prove it) without taking the exam. As far as I understand it the exam is a step up from course completion, and then the YM exam is a further step up.

The RYA doesn't specify a practical course for YM (although of course any sailing school will take your money!), the point is only to pass the exam.

C. Herrmann, RYA Coastal Skipper (course completed)

 

[ex-Gladys]

The practical reduces the qualification mileage to 400 and 12 night hours as opposed to 800 and 12

 

[alant]

"but you can complete a RYA Coastal Skipper practical five-day course (and get a certificate to prove it) without taking the exam."


As you said, this is simply a course completion certificate, similar to DS - has no validity of wanted for 'commercial' purposes. Awarded by the instructor.

The CS/YM 'exam' is assessed by an (supposedly) independant examiner. He then makes a recommendation to the RYA for awarding either CS or YM. If you are examined for YM, there isn't (shouldn't be) a fallback second level award of CS - this is a fallacy.

"The RYA doesn't specify a practical course for YM (although of course any sailing school will take your money!), the point is only to pass the exam."

There is no such thing as an RYA YM practical course (only CS - assessed & awarded in-house by a school). Schools run YM 'preparation courses'. Even though these 'might' result in an exam at the end of 5 days, which is the main purpose of the YM prep, you will & should actually learn a great deal. You could also do this prep week on your own boat (no school connection at all) organising the examiner independantly. Your granmother if capable, could run the prep week, you do not necessarily require a YM Instructor (in spite of what the RYA may say).

 

[Tiko]

I have done Coastal Skipper, which is a course not an exam, and also YM Coastal - they were completely different courses for me.
The YM pre and exam were brutal with 30kn wind and rain at night, picking out a transit line, for example, was really challenging and you can't get any questions wrong.
I passed - just, gybed on the MOB but called it before the boom came over and he allowed that.
These are the levels

1. Day Skipper
2. Coastal Skipper
3. Yachtmaster Coastal
4. Yachtmaster Offshore
5. Yachtmaster Ocean

 

[roaringgirl]

I failed YM the first time because the instructor got confused between which candidates completed which parts correctly and which didn't. I failed the second attempt fair and square with an accidental gybe. I was given CS as a consolation.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I surprisingly passed my YM despite ‘throwing up’ about two hours in.

 

[Tiko]

Is there any point in doing CS before YM? They both appear to be taught at the same time, is there a difference other than the criteria to start the course?

It just adds extra practice for the excercises that are done. In YM we were not allowed to use the engine and no chart plotter, GPS or wind speed indicator

 

[Praxinoscope]

It just adds extra practice for the excercises that are done. In YM we were not allowed to use the engine and no chart plotter, GPS or wind speed indicator

When I did my YM chart plotters and gps were ‘science fiction’, paper charts, parallel rulers and dividers were the order of the day.

 

[Tiko]

When I did my YM chart plotters and gps were ‘science fiction’, paper charts, parallel rulers and dividers were the order of the day.

It still is like this - I passed yesterday! Thats all they allow - super unrealistic lol

 

[Obi]

Having spend six months full time doing the full RYA syllabus (like many of us).

FWIW / IMO:
The CS is largely similar to the YM. The YM requires a level of accuracy on all things that is much greater. How you run the boat in all manner of situations is under closer scruitiny with less tolerance of "less than perfect". However your examiner, the mood they are in, and the day will also affect how strict they are.

Doing a CS before a YM is confidence building, great practice, and more opportunity to keep learning. IMO practice, more tuition, more confidence (based on the skills/learning) are very good things. The more time spent learning the better sailor you will be. My advice, trying to short cut the process is not always the best approach.
I find solid, steady learning and building a firm foundation for the knowledge to be my personal favourite approach to learning. I have taken the short cuts at times and as a result occasionally felt my weaknesses were exposed (I joined a massive consultancy straight out of uni at 23 and thought I had big boots. I soon realised I had a lot more to learn, but not before I had felt out of my depth). So when it came to sailing, I invested as much time and money into learning as I could.

I also found that the immersion in the zero to hero whereby for six months I was onboard, surrounded by sailors, books and an instructor was a superb way for me to really bed in the knowledge. Had I learned differently with a few weekends a year, and maybe a week trip or two once a year, I think I would have forgotten lots, but doing it every day, for 24 hours a day meant that every day, "yesterday's lessons" became the routine. For example, if on Monday I got my first taste of a new skill, then every day after that, I got to think about it again, see it, do it. and never forget it. But now I have probably forgotten more than I learned and I will do a refresher at some point.