Coast guard outsourcing

[robertj]

I feel the impending outsourcing of routine and emergency calls to an idian call centre spells out real problems.
The digital messaging I grant u will still be quick but I feel the language barrier and accents will cause confusion.
I hope this is not another governmental white elephant when huge amounts were spent to slimline the emergency services to be scrapped at a later date.
I feel it's working fine why change, it would be cheaper but the savings would not warrent the many problems that could exist.
What's the forums feelings?

 

[NB Willawaw]

I hope I've been able to rescue you today.
Is there anymore we can do for you.
Yu may receive a feedback request in the near future so we can assess how we'll we are doing.

 

[chanelyacht]

I feel the impending outsourcing of routine and emergency calls to an idian call centre spells out real problems.
The digital messaging I grant u will still be quick but I feel the language barrier and accents will cause confusion.
I hope this is not another governmental white elephant when huge amounts were spent to slimline the emergency services to be scrapped at a later date.
I feel it's working fine why change, it would be cheaper but the savings would not warrent the many problems that could exist.
What's the forums feelings?

What on earth are you talking about?

No part of the CG service is being outsourced or offshored.

And if you think no change was needed, try working here...

The current plans have their flaws, and their strengths - as with any plan. But I firmly believe we will come out of it a stronger service.

The "white elephant" is I assume FiRe Control - a good project, very much needed to combat disjointed control rooms, scuppered by local authority parochialism and union infighting.

 

[Cantata]

I feel the impending outsourcing of routine and emergency calls to an idian call centre spells out real problems. .....

Is Fareham in somewhere called Idia then?

 

[chanelyacht]

Is Fareham in somewhere called Idia then?

And Fareham will only routinely be handling the work of Solent, Portland and parts of Brixham - although the capability to support other ops rooms will exist (unlike now, when only one neighbour can help another, often when both are busy).

 

[Yeoman of England]

The technology exists but does not work consistently due to lack of expansion of the WAN.
At this moment in time it is not reliable. An example is the with impending closure of MRCC Yarmouth. MRCC Humber will need a massive upgrade to take over the patch.
I agree with Cantata - lets move the whole operation abroad or adopt the status quo.

 

[Cantata]

...I agree with Cantata - lets move the whole operation abroad or adopt the status quo.

EH? Pardon me but I never said that!

 

[maxi77]

What on earth are you talking about?

No part of the CG service is being outsourced or offshored.

And if you think no change was needed, try working here...

The current plans have their flaws, and their strengths - as with any plan. But I firmly believe we will come out of it a stronger service.

The "white elephant" is I assume FiRe Control - a good project, very much needed to combat disjointed control rooms, scuppered by local authority parochialism and union infighting.

I think that every one knows that, it was just a wind up, but many do fear that the senior management would do such a thing if they saw a way to get away with it for long enough to draw their bonuses.

 

[wotayottie]

Is Fareham in somewhere called Idia then?

To quote Sir Humphrey " You may well think so but I could not possibly comment..... "

 

[glashen]

To quote Sir Humphrey " You may well think so but I could not possibly comment..... "

The quote is not Sir Humphrey but Francis Urquart , House of Cards.

 

[chanelyacht]

I think that every one knows that, it was just a wind up, but many do fear that the senior management would do such a thing if they saw a way to get away with it for long enough to draw their bonuses.

No, I don't think ours would. Really.

I've worked in a lot of larger organisations - and I've rarely (actually, never) seen any CEO or deputy spend as much time out "with the troops" as Sir Alan Massey and his team do - and there's a genuine interest and knowledge when they do that as well.

It's horrible to see people leaving, but the service has needed proper change (rather than just losing the odd MRCC) for years - and this project, while maybe not all perfect, will go a long way to addressing the gaps we've worked with for years.

 

[maxi77]

No, I don't think ours would. Really.

I've worked in a lot of larger organisations - and I've rarely (actually, never) seen any CEO or deputy spend as much time out "with the troops" as Sir Alan Massey and his team do - and there's a genuine interest and knowledge when they do that as well.

It's horrible to see people leaving, but the service has needed proper change (rather than just losing the odd MRCC) for years - and this project, while maybe not all perfect, will go a long way to addressing the gaps we've worked with for years.

The problem many of us see is an organisation which is changing from one with local staff who understand their patch to a much more remote organisation much more akin to a call centre organisation in terms of the user interface. We lost our local station a few months ago and I now suspect that almost all the ledge that used to reside in that station is now lost, Clyde closed today and is now handled by somewhere in Northern Ireland and once again where is the local knowledge now.

I do not doubt the loyalty and dedication of the average CG Officer but I think they are being taken a step to far. I on the other hand knowing the way big organisations work do have a fear that jobs, service, and effectiveness are being sacrificed for senior management bonuses.

 

[chanelyacht]

The problem many of us see is an organisation which is changing from one with local staff who understand their patch to a much more remote organisation much more akin to a call centre organisation in terms of the user interface. We lost our local station a few months ago and I now suspect that almost all the ledge that used to reside in that station is now lost, Clyde closed today and is now handled by somewhere in Northern Ireland and once again where is the local knowledge now.

I do not doubt the loyalty and dedication of the average CG Officer but I think they are being taken a step to far. I on the other hand knowing the way big organisations work do have a fear that jobs, service, and effectiveness are being sacrificed for senior management bonuses.

It seems to be forgotten that "local knowledge" - as in people born / raised in the area they cover - is a new thing - effectively, post CWA introduction in the 90s. Prior to that, the CG always was (and to some extent is) a mobile service. The old system was that new entrants, fresh from sea usually, did 3 years in a grim posting before getting the chance of somewhere a bit more comfortable.

I now have more resources than I ever did for locating people - and having moved a few times, I can't think of a single incident when not having immediate local knowledge really cost life-saving time. The lifeboat crews, coastguard rescue teams, etc are the real holders of in-detail local knowledge, and though all CGs are examined annually on local knowledge, it can never be as in depth as people on the ground in the sectors.

It's a bit like the "retain the bobby on the beat" argument - quaint, reassurring, but ultimately pretty ineffective.

 

[Grumpybear]

The problem many of us see is an organisation which is changing from one with local staff who understand their patch to a much more remote organisation much more akin to a call centre organisation in terms of the user interface. We lost our local station a few months ago and I now suspect that almost all the ledge that used to reside in that station is now lost, Clyde closed today and is now handled by somewhere in Northern Ireland and once again where is the local knowledge now.

I do not doubt the loyalty and dedication of the average CG Officer but I think they are being taken a step to far. I on the other hand knowing the way big organisations work do have a fear that jobs, service, and effectiveness are being sacrificed for senior management bonuses.

I cannot think of any government reorganisation since the abolition of summary beheading that has significantly cut management, which is why they never work. Services and the people who deliver them always suffer far more than the people at all levels who shuffle paper (or electrons) and who are focused overwhelmingly on their own futures. I speak as someone who after many years as a middle manager in a number of organisations realised that hardly any of the people at or close to my level actually contributed anything positive. This knowledge didn't help that much when my post was finally made redundant, and that didn't help the company in question, which went into administration two years later after cutting staff by 25% while appointing three additional directors.

That said, I will keep an open mind over the outcome of the CG reorganisation.

BTW, there was a thread a while ago which rightly exposed a website peddling shockingly inaccurate and potentially damaging allegations about these changes. It appears from the talk about outsourcing that this condition has now infected this forum. Shame.

 

[chanelyacht]

I cannot think of any government reorganisation since the abolition of summary beheading that has significantly cut management, which is why they never work. Services and the people who deliver them always suffer far more than the people at all levels who shuffle paper (or electrons) and who are focused overwhelmingly on their own futures. I speak as someone who after many years as a middle manager in a number of organisations realised that hardly any of the people at or close to my level actually contributed anything positive. This knowledge didn't help that much when my post was finally made redundant, and that didn't help the company in question, which went into administration two years later after cutting staff by 25% while appointing three additional directors.

That said, I will keep an open mind over the outcome of the CG reorganisation.

BTW, there was a thread a while ago which rightly exposed a website peddling shockingly inaccurate and potentially damaging allegations about these changes. It appears from the talk about outsourcing that this condition has now infected this forum. Shame.

This reorganisation may buck the trend then.

18 rescue centre managers' posts are going, and the grades above the main front line coastguard level are pretty sparse. An extra 20 or so frontline coastal (out of ops rooms, training and managing teams and living in the community they serve) are being created.

 

[maxi77]

It seems to be forgotten that "local knowledge" - as in people born / raised in the area they cover - is a new thing - effectively, post CWA introduction in the 90s. Prior to that, the CG always was (and to some extent is) a mobile service. The old system was that new entrants, fresh from sea usually, did 3 years in a grim posting before getting the chance of somewhere a bit more comfortable.

I now have more resources than I ever did for locating people - and having moved a few times, I can't think of a single incident when not having immediate local knowledge really cost life-saving time. The lifeboat crews, coastguard rescue teams, etc are the real holders of in-detail local knowledge, and though all CGs are examined annually on local knowledge, it can never be as in depth as people on the ground in the sectors.

It's a bit like the "retain the bobby on the beat" argument - quaint, reassurring, but ultimately pretty ineffective.

I for a time lived on the edge of a real probelm estate, when they restored dedicated beat bobbies the crime rate fell and the funding for the service was continued. Your argument on not needing local knowledge for the CG when every one else has it is the perfect answer for outsourcing to Mumbai

 

[Grumpybear]

This reorganisation may buck the trend then.

18 rescue centre managers' posts are going, and the grades above the main front line coastguard level are pretty sparse. An extra 20 or so frontline coastal (out of ops rooms, training and managing teams and living in the community they serve) are being created.

I really do hope It works, and that my cynicism proves unjustified. It is high time that the curse of the middle manager was lifted from the shoulders of workers, shareholders and taxpayers alike.

 

[chanelyacht]

I for a time lived on the edge of a real probelm estate, when they restored dedicated beat bobbies the crime rate fell and the funding for the service was continued. Your argument on not needing local knowledge for the CG when every one else has it is the perfect answer for outsourcing to Mumbai

I didn't say no local knowledge was needed, I pointed out that local knowledge is not the perogative of people born or brought up in an area - it can be learnt, retained, and trained for regardless of where the person comes from.

The "Mumbai argument" is just so ridiculous as to not be worthy of comment.

The fact is that, at present, large numbers of coastguards do very little work at night or on quiet days - yet their neighbouring station, with a watch of 4, may be running round like mad pretty much snowed under. The new system, despite all the ill informed scare mongering, will address that - and there is currently a greater (in my opinion) vulnerability in mistakes being made due to either skills fade or being vastly overworked at a certain point in time, than there is in taking an extra few seconds in having to confirm a location.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

It's an ill wind that blows no one any good

I really do hope It works, and that my cynicism proves unjustified. It is high time that the curse of the middle manager was lifted from the shoulders of workers, shareholders and taxpayers alike.

+1, 'everybody fights, nobody quits', cop outs/sops to 'inclusivity' such as 'transferable competancies' breed layers of self centred know nuffins between the workers with the skills/know how and the real decision makers.

A flat structure with no more than 3 layers from bottom to top works, restructuring into elaborate 'business streams' and 'directorates' don't*- how do I know that ????

*but they do give the canny a chance to bail out before it all goes t@ts up!

 

[NormanS]

+1, 'everybody fights, nobody quits', cop outs/sops to 'inclusivity' such as 'transferable competancies' breed layers of self centred know nuffins between the workers with the skills/know how and the real decision makers.

A flat structure with no more than 3 layers from bottom to top works, restructuring into elaborate 'business streams' and 'directorates' don't*- how do I know that ????

*but they do give the canny a chance to bail out before it all goes t@ts up!

Go on, spoil me. Tell me what you mean.