CO poisoning

Lady Campanula

Lady Campanula

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As more of us use our boats through the winter, and threads about heater problems mlultiply, do have a moment's thought for this alarming report.

I was certainly one of those 'close calls' last spring. Had it not been for a simple little CO alarm box left aboard by a friend, I would probably have figured in the list of fatalities. I posted the tale here.

Is it timely to make a plea for us all to give thought and space to having a cheap CO alarm device on board, sooner rather than later? I know they cost just a couple of quid, via Aldi/Lidl, and can even be had free from some local Fire and Rescue Services.... :eek:
 
I will echo that call. My CO monitor at home warned us that it was time to deal with the ancient Solid Fuel boiler. It's a nuisance & extra cost to the household budget to sort the stove, but much better than waking up dead one morning. :D
 
Lady Campanula said:
Is it timely to make a plea for us all to give thought and space to having a cheap CO alarm device on board, sooner rather than later?
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Not just on board but also at home where there is any open-flued/flueless gas/oil/solid fuel appliance.

I have started giving a CO alarm to any elderly customer whose open-flued boiler/gas fire we service.:)
 
Giblets said:
Not just on board but also at home where there is any open-flued/flueless gas/oil/solid fuel appliance.

I have started giving a CO alarm to any elderly customer whose open-flued boiler/gas fire we service.:)
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British Gas insist on giving CO monitors to any household where they service the boiler. And ours once went off while I wasn't at home; my daughter (quite correctly) rang the number on the alarm, and got a very rapid response. In that case, it was a false alarm (low battery), but it is noteworthy just HOW seriously manufacturers and suppliers of gas appliances take this issue. And the responder commended my daughter for taking the right action, even though it was a false alarm.

I am very twitchy about CO - it is a well known cause of fatalities in Antarctica, where people routinely have to use paraffin cookers in tents (you can't cook outside when it is -30 degrees C!). BAS has done quite a bit of research into the best operating regime for such cookers, which is prominently displayed in the research stations.

The bottom line, though, is that ANY flame based heating or lighting system CAN emit CO if it is maladjusted or faulty; that the emission of CO may not be accompanied by any other obvious symptoms, and that you cannot detect CO by smell or any other means.
 
parsifal said:
Isn't it true that they also produce carbon monoxide even when working properly?
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No; if correctly operating they shouldn't, or at least, only at levels well below the level at which it becomes poisonous. Of course, they produce CO2, which is non-poisonous but which will asphyxiate you in sufficient concentration. But the concentration at which it gets to be a problem is far higher than the concentration for CO, which is actively poisonous - CO binds to haemoglobin in your blood preferentially over oxygen.

Problem with paraffin stoves, though is that the difference between "operating properly" and "generating poisonous gas" is not very great, and may not be obvious to the operator.
 
I've just bought a pair of Kidde 7 year CO alarms for my boat - one in the saloon & one in the rear cabin. From ebay at £10 each which was a good price. The previous two had come to the end of their 5 year life(they keep 'beeping' when their design life is up).
 
AntarcticPilot said:
No; if correctly operating they shouldn't, or at least, only at levels well below the level at which it becomes poisonous. Of course, they produce CO2, which is non-poisonous but which will asphyxiate you in sufficient concentration. But the concentration at which it gets to be a problem is far higher than the concentration for CO, which is actively poisonous - CO binds to haemoglobin in your blood preferentially over oxygen.

Problem with paraffin stoves, though is that the difference between "operating properly" and "generating poisonous gas" is not very great, and may not be obvious to the operator.
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Produces carboxyl haemoglobin, which replaces the oxygen normally transported.

Easily spotted because your face goes a nice red colour.

I used to work in a chemical industry where CO, was a process gas used to refine Nickel, in the carbonyl process. We used to make a very nasty material called Nickel carbonyl, which is much more deadly than a close relative phosgene (chlorine carbonyl). In those days, anyone gassed, was taken out into fresh air & forcibly walked around to try to clear his system. only a temporary measure, since nickel cannot be excreted.
 
PetiteFleur said:
I've just bought a pair of Kidde 7 year CO alarms for my boat - one in the saloon & one in the rear cabin. From ebay at £10 each which was a good price. The previous two had come to the end of their 5 year life(they keep 'beeping' when their design life is up).
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Don't think they are designed for marine use.
 
alant said:
Produces carboxyl haemoglobin, which replaces the oxygen normally transported.

Easily spotted because your face goes a nice red colour.
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By the time your face has turned the characteristic cherry red, you are probably close to death. CO is a very nasty poison, insidious onset, with confusion an early effect leading to inability to recognise that there is a problem.

I totally agree with awol above, feeling sick headachy or groggy in a situation where CO is even a faint possibility should not be ignored.

Get out into fresh air, and only then try and think what might be the cause. The source might even not be on your own boat/premises.

We had a situation when a patient turned out to be suffering from chronic CO poisoning. His symptoms only occurred during the night. The cause was an badly maintained appliance in an adjacent flat whose exhaust was close to his bedroom window. Air circulation happened to draw the fumes into his room.
 
dougg said:
Three key words to avoid co poisning. ventilation, ventilation, ventilation.
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+ proper positioning of appliances + proper servicing of appliances...but yes..if all else goes t*ts up its the ventilation that is most likely going to save you.

In the one serious CO incident I was involved in professionally, it was the 100cm2 vent in the kitchen specifically for the open flued boiler (that was dodgy) that most likely made it serious and not fatal. Had the boiler been in the lounge where they all sat down to watch telly I think their chances of survival would have been much slimmer. They didn't spend much time in the kitchen, and the vent provided just enough fresh air.

And I was only called out that night because they said their radiators were not getting very hot:eek:

Tim
 
dougg said:
Three key words to avoid co poisning. ventilation, ventilation, ventilation.
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Agree. That's why it is a BIG problem in Antarctica - there is a sort of obvious conflict between keeping warm enough not to die of hypothermia and keeping CO from the cooking stove at bay!

Of course, at this time of the year, we face similar but less extreme choices on a boat! And I am planning spending time on Capricious in November - this year has been a bad one for boating. But it will be too cold to leave cabin hatches open.
 
just been and bought one for the boat well not a marine one as such but it should do the job.Wish I'd seen the Tesco thing as i payed more than that:mad: but only need one on a boat size of ours.
 
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