Closed or open turnbuckles?

[pcatterall]

Just considering replacing our mizzen standing rigging.
Our turnbuckles are all open chrome on bronze.
Are there pros and cons with open v closed units?
I guess that as our existing wire is 5mm then turnbuckles should be rated with at least the same breaking load?
I believe that 5/16th will suffice ?

 

[ghostlymoron]

I prefer open pattern bronze ones for no particular reason.

 

[Refueler]

Being an old boat ... I have a mix of open and closed - all stainless ... which do I prefer / find best ? Neither ... both do the job well. Really I would say it comes down to cosmetics ?

I would like but it will never happen ... would be to replace and have all same.

 

[davidpbo]

On my trailerable boat I wish I had gone for open, I would have liked to have been able see the position of the thread. Also open usually have a split pin on the thread to stop them coming out I think.

Not such a problem if the mast isn't up and down regularly.

 

[Refueler]

On my trailerable boat I wish I had gone for open, I would have liked to have been able see the position of the thread. Also open usually have a split pin on the thread to stop them coming out I think.

Not such a problem if the mast isn't up and down regularly.

Fair comment ...

On the use of ... with the open I have - its finding something strong enough and flat to insert into the body to be able to tighten / slack while holding working end. As regards spilt pins .. I removed them as I caught shoes / ankles / ropes on them even when bent as far as possible in.
The closed type - a hole is provided in the body for a reasonable sized rod ... usually a phillips screwdriver to be used to hold the body. As to knowing thread used ... that is seen by use of the locknuts.

But as I said before ... really I see no advantage with either type.

There is one type of closed though that I do not like ... on my small weekender boat - it has closed versions that have the stay terminated inside the body by a free to turn ferrule. So the only actual screw part is the other end that connects to the deck. Basically hook onto deck - then turn body to adjust ... great idea until the stay starts to turn as well and then you have to take care in gripping the stay .. as it has no eye to use.

 

[pcatterall]

Thanks guys
Surprised that you can safely remove the pins. We accidentally left some out and in just one 12 hour sail the rigging had become very loose. I assume that the nuts top and bottom act like the split pins.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Thanks guys
Surprised that you can safely remove the pins. We accidentally left some out and in just one 12 hour sail the rigging had become very loose. I assume that the nuts top and bottom act like the split pins.

Personally I rather have split pins then nuts , as you said they can work there was loose.

 

[Graham376]

We had closed stainless on our first boat and they galled. Open chromed bronze are reputed to be the best and that's what we've found.

 

[Refueler]

Thanks guys
Surprised that you can safely remove the pins. We accidentally left some out and in just one 12 hour sail the rigging had become very loose. I assume that the nuts top and bottom act like the split pins.

I have never had the nuts work loose once tightened up to lock the body ...

I do have in the locker - special locking sleeves for open versions ... but they are a real pain to fit and to remove. They basically encapsulate the whole tb ...

 

[Praxinoscope]

Refueler, a bit concerned if I read your post correctly ref open turnbuckles, the last thing you should do with an open turnbuckle is to insert something flat and strong enough to turn it, this will risk weakening the turnbuckle, they should be tightened using a spanner (adjustable is OK) on the outside flats of the turnbuckle.
I would certainly never leave out the split pins, seizing wire or whatever method one adopts to prevent them loosening.

 

[Refueler]

Refueler, a bit concerned if I read your post correctly ref open turnbuckles, the last thing you should do with an open turnbuckle is to insert something flat and strong enough to turn it, this will risk weakening the turnbuckle, they should be tightened using a spanner (adjustable is OK) on the outside flats of the turnbuckle.

Bad as it may seem .. often I resort to what it is at hand ... but I agree if an adjustable is at hand - that is best and what I prefer.

If your turnbuckle is so weak that my suggestion can cause it to fail ... then I am glad I do not have same on my boats ...

Consider this also ... many closed versions have a hole for suitable rod to pass through for tightening / loosening ... that body with the hole is usually less metal in depth than the open version .. but I don't see any advise to not use the rod ... just saying ...

 

[Yngmar]

Closed ones retain more dirt and salt (and moisture), which then goes into the threads when adjusting. Open ones are easier to clean and inspect. Bronze ones, chromed or not will not gall with stainless studs, that's why they're considered best.

 

[geem]

Thanks guys
Surprised that you can safely remove the pins. We accidentally left some out and in just one 12 hour sail the rigging had become very loose. I assume that the nuts top and bottom act like the split pins.

We have open bronze turnbuckles. Compared to stainless, bronze is better.
We dont use split pins. Instead we use 316 stainless welding wire. You wire through the hole then around the body of the turnbuckle in a figure of 8. Twist the two ends together then snip off the excess and tuck that in to the centre of the open body. That way nothing snags. Far more elegant and secure than split pins.

 

[Refueler]

Question :

Why would locking nuts be fine on closed ? But according to some here not on open turnbuckles ?

Both closed and open TB's work on same principle of threaded parts.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Question :

Why would locking nuts be fine on closed ? But according to some here not on open turnbuckles ?

Both closed and open TB's work on same principle of threaded parts.

Nuts probably would work on open turnbuckles, but why use them? The open units are easy to wire or split pin, which is rather difficult with closed.

 

[Daverw]

I added half nuts to both sets of open turnbuckles a couple of years ago as I got fed up of snagging on pins and locking wire, took some finding as needing both lhd and rhd thread

 

[Daydream believer]

I never put a bar through my open turnbuckles. I prefer to use a large adjustable spanner across the flats & a spanner across the flats of the wire terminals.
As for split pins, I use ring terminals were I can, but some have to be split pins. Many sailors bind them in tape, but this takes time to remove when adjusting the rig or lowering the mast. My solution is some waste pipe slotted, with a fine toothed saw, to go over the turnbuckles. They can be quickly slid up the wire for a regular check.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Daydream believer, like your idea of the pipes over the turnbuckles.

 

[Refueler]

I added half nuts to both sets of open turnbuckles a couple of years ago as I got fed up of snagging on pins and locking wire, took some finding as needing both lhd and rhd thread

Thank you ... exactly why I stopped using pins.

My open TB's came with locking nuts anyway ... so maybe manufacturer agrees ??? I even have spare open TB's that have no pin holes in the threaded parts ... now THATS interesting.

If I can hobble out .. I may even post a photo of them.

 

[Refueler]

Thanks guys
Surprised that you can safely remove the pins. We accidentally left some out and in just one 12 hour sail the rigging had become very loose. I assume that the nuts top and bottom act like the split pins.

If a stay is correctly tightened - and not allowed to turn while adjusting ... then it should not want to 'unwind' and then loosen.

Use of locking nuts is an accepted engineering solution to many applications .. your car uses such on life-threatening items such as steering ....

Sorry - but locking nuts properly tightened are an easy and fully acceptable non 'jaggy spike' method. Closed TB's use locknuts, My open TB's were supplied with locknuts, I even have spare open TB's that have no provision for pins ....