Close shave today

Re: Disability and sailing

BigNick, I'm sure you are right, he just didn't say it but it does raise the point that if you swap his genny for a spinnaker he would probably argue that he then becomes the stand on vessel. I wonder if the rule needs changing so that we give way to anything on our starboard bow irrespective of sail, motor, tack, whatever.

kim
 
Re: Disability and sailing

Snowleopard said "if I am sailing on port tack and my view to leeward is obscured by the genoa, does that mean that starboard tack boats crossing from my lee side must keep clear of me? "

If he is on port tack, it means his boom is to starboard. Spinnaker or genoa makes no difference to his right of way. He still has to give way to starboard tack boats, whether he can see them or not.
 
As someone just getting to grips with the rules of sailing at sea I am grateful for your attitude, Martin. I read threads like this to learn and when dealing with issues like balancing the rights of the stand on vessel and everybody's responsibilty take appropriate action to avoid collisions the responses can be very revealing and informative.

I hate and loathe the endless encroachment of regulation into all our lives and believe I should have the right to be on the ocean just as previous generations have. However, with rights come responsibilties and mine is to sail safely and with proper regard to others.

Long may we continue to be able to take to the water without excessive interference from the Nanny State.
 
[ QUOTE ]

In giving way to somebody you needn't, you could find yourself in the path of another boat who was not expecting you to be there.



[/ QUOTE ] yes, a bit like old dears at roundabouts, stopping to let some in from the sideroad. No-one behind her expects that to happen.

"I've been driving 55 years and I've never had an accident......"
 
Re: Disability and sailing

Only that from memory of Day/Coastal skipper courses I've been on it was suggested that you should give way to a boat under spinnaker as it resricts their forward vision. It also restricts the ability of the other boat to determine what side their mainsail is set if so you must assume she is on starboard tack and give way.

I will never forgive you for asking that question as I have had to pull out the cupbard containing my old RYA books. The dog bit me for disturbing him. My wife isn't talking to me for giving doggy a lofty kick and I've knocked over my last bottle of hoogarten.
 
Re: Disability and sailing

imo thats a stupid interpetation of the rules

?rules? do these lecturers know them ?

give way to a vessel with ................ nah ............... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

no one heard about 'opposite to that which the mainsail ......... ' nah

/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

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/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Re: Disability and sailing

[ QUOTE ]
you should give way to a boat under spinnaker as it resricts their forward vision

[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't it more the case that a boat flying a spinnaker, or indeed a poled out genoa is "restriced in her ability to manouver"
 
Re: Disability and sailing

It is actually in the course notes booklets supplied by the RYA. Also in the Imray Day Skipper book by Pat Langley Rice and Phillip Ouvry, though I probably haven't written it up as clearly as they have.

kim
 
Re: Disability and sailing

it may in a respectible publication but they dont take supremercy over the colregs....

sailing v/l upwind has to

sailing vessel on same (tack) upwind has to

opposite to that which the mainsail is carried .......

any idea why I am not happy with this idea that a yot with a spinny is absolved from the colregs ?

maybe I am just too old to grasp these new informal rules huh

or maybe I am becoming more wary of ppls interpritatons of the rules and they will stand on instead of giving way, and vice verca

what an effing cock up in the making

i.m.o. of course

/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Re: Disability and sailing

"what an effing cock up in the making"

I'm with you on this,which brings me back to my earlier suggestion. Change the rules so that you give way to anything on your starboard bow.

BTW Are you allowed to say 'cock' on this forum?

kim
 
[ QUOTE ]
when dealing with issues like balancing the rights of the stand on vessel and everybody's responsibilty take appropriate action to avoid collisions the responses can be very revealing and informative.

[/ QUOTE ]

well said on all acounts and especially this one as I certainly find reading about it better than always having to learn from my own incidents!

Rather than another thread, given this ones 'match' I will recount from Sunday in Poole Bay where the principle was the pretty much the same.
Before leaving myself open to comment on 'how close later on I will highlight that I am a 7.5m sportfisher not a 45ft 'gin palace' with associated tidal wake!

Not having an autopilot and trying to occupy myself returning accross Poole Bay from lunch at Yarmouth I was sadly playing with the radar on teh one hand and trying to steer an exact course of 270 on the other. At 2 miles I spotted a pretty blob well to port of my track and tracked it. Quick glance through the bins showed it to be a yacht under power (2+2 - no sails and moving on the screen).After a while it became clear that despite ebing the only couple of baots around we had found a combined combination of course and speed to result in a collision if no one did anything........ /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
At this point I would also mention that my score for the weekend was 2 thank yous from safety vessels for stopping and standing by capsised RS400s in open water and 5 thanks from crews racing in Poole Harbour so I had had a good weekend..........
I decide to see what was going to happen, strictly I was stand on etc - if they had been under sail or anchored I would have made a small chage early to give a wide berth but I really was interested in what would happen (and how it played out on the screen).
At 200 yds and obviously no reaction deliverate or not I turned to starboard and passed clear in front.
No one on watch? Not a bit of it - a very irrate gentleman jumped up and down in the cockpit making obscene gestures.......

Situation exactly as the picture already posted
dangerz.gif

Message? You're the motor boat you change course, and make sure you don't come anywhere near me 'cos it's my sea.
Oh, and before it's raised I absolutely agree that with the speed differentials it make more sense for a much faster vessel (about 4:1 in this case I would estimate) to make the move and I would have done clearly and instantly if I had seen any sign of a change from m8ee.

On balance though I was chatting to another forumite fromt eh dark side over a beer in Swanage Saturday and we had to agree the weekend was shaping up as remarkably poor behaviour by mobo's (mainly a lack of consideration but some obvious ignorance) and a lot of friendly waves and appreciation from the rag and sticks.
 
Re: Disability and sailing

Thanks Nick. Once again we feel the lack of the [irony]...[/irony] markup tags!

Of course the idea that if you can't see it, it doesn't matter is ludicrous. That would mean an ostrich had right of way over everything!!!
 
Re: Disability and sailing

No No,

I don’t think anyone is saying that flying a spinnaker absolves you from colregs.

The point is that the other boat’s spinnaker can prevent you from seeing which tack he is on.

In that case the correct action is to assume that he is on starboard and give way to him.

Seems sensible to me in that its easier when flying the kite to stand on than it is to change course.
 
Under spinnaker

.. is acshully bollox .. what is says is that if you can't see what tack it is on cos your vision of the main is obscured by the spinnaker then you should assume it is on starboard ... it in no way alters the fundamental Colregs. IMHO if a boats ability to manouvre is hampered by the sail it is carrying it should stay out everyones way cos that's his problem!!!
 
Re: Spinnaker

When I bought my first boat I only had a vague idea of the Colregs. The trouble is that it is so easy to get on the sea with little knowledge! Even my competent crew course did little to improve that. It would be counter productive to have everyone up to Coastal Skipper standards perhaps, but shouldn't we be looking at some kind of "driving test" for the buyer of anything bigger than a dinghy? Like the ICC?

Every time we go out now, SWMBO and I analyse nearly every boat we see who comes within a mile, and it is good education and great fun if you have to take off an item of clothing every time you are wrong!
 
Re: Spinnaker

OK, OK, OK, i retract my insults that the guy was a pea brained twat.
Yes i know i was the one to give way, which i did, albeit very late to make the move.
However, this guy as far as i am concerned could/should have been prepared to also alter course to prevent a possible accident.

It's not the case of, who was right or who was wrong, and
no-one should think, just because they are in the right, [--word removed--] you mate, this is my route, move over or else.

Surly it's everyones duty to try and avoid a collision. Or do i take it from what some are saying, stick to the rules, and whack the next boat who is in the wrong and gets in my way.

I don't think so, and personally i will give way to any boat if it is going to stop a collision.

I don't admit to knowing all the rules even though i have been boating for over 30 years. and i would probably make
cock-ups with the highway code, even though i have been driving over 40 years, both accident free.

IMHO i think some people have the wrong attitude just because they think they know it all, others try to help by offering advice which is very helpful.

Anyway, today i altered my seat by raising it up six inches so i can now get a better view from the helm, and tomorrow i will be going out to find a smaller tender to hang off my davits so i can get a better view over the stern.
 
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