Close Encounters

Topcat47 said:
I posted an appeal for witnesses. Anyone who saw the incident would have had no doubt about how close it was. Anyone who didn't isn't actually responding to the post.
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Indeed, but as is usual in such cases this has led to further discussion during which I've asked just how close something has to be to be considered a close encounter? I've been accused more than once of cutting things a bit fine when dodging round other boats so just wondered what your perception was. It's no big deal if you don't want to go into it, but it might open up an alternative point of view over the incident. After all, we've already got people on here saying it sounds like appalling bad seamanship and that's with practically no information about what actually happened.
 
The incident is currently under investigation by the MCA, so I am treating it as “sub judice”. Suffice to say it was far too close for comfort.
 
"Too close for comfort" is subjective. One wonders if the skipper of the hovercraft felt the same way. Still, no doubt the MCA will get to the bottom of it all. Thanks for sharing.
 
It was probably me on another thread, its one of my favourites just now.

Best one was from a fisherman I knew when giving his position over the VHF radio to his mum at home (yeah, I know but this was 30 years ago) 'Im best part of a good part of a tidy way out'. And she knew what he meant......
 
Topcat47 said:
I posted an appeal for witnesses. Anyone who saw the incident would have had no doubt about how close it was. Anyone who didn't isn't actually responding to the post.
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I'm not gonna respond to the post either, so maybe I need to get a special dispensation to post too :)

(Especially given another recent post from another Solent sailor who didn't like anyone veering off course :) :) :) - is that enough smileys for the serious /joyless types on here?)

Topcat- sounds quite a scary experience, glad you are ok, and hopefully will get sorted.

I was gonna recall an experience from 32 years ago when I (as a young kayak instructor) was helping take a youth group sea kayaking from Hillhead across to the needles and around the Island over a 3 day August holiday.

Day one - Hillhead to Freshwater, almost ended in death as a hovercraft ignored our safety boat and white flares, and kept going straight, right through the gap between the front group and the rear group, passing with 10m of one 14 yr old, causing a capsize, and that youth never getting in a kayak again.

Day 2, from Freshwater to past St Catherine's to Bembridge, had us constantly worried as powerboat racers cut through our group.

Day 3, heading back across the Solent, saw a very close encounter with a group of toffs on a huge yacht, who shouted abuse as they cut through the group, making no effort to avoid us.

In 4 years of doing this annual trip we never had similar happen again.

Safety boat (5m rib), white flares, paddles raised (fluro painted) - nothing made any difference. And no response to VHF except from other vessels not involved.
 
Very shortly after they got their new Griffon hovercraft we were going into Portsmouth and a steady 3 knots and they came charging directly at us, there is realistically sod all you can do even at 6 knots, when they they are doing 40-45 knots. The pilot shot in front of us, we all thought he would go behind, that was fairly close :ambivalence: we expected a lot of wind from the fans but actually very little bother.

We just keep a good watch for them (allways have !!) and try to maintain a steady course so at least they know what we are doing and can set a course around us and others and to be fair they are usually pretty good at that
 
Years ago my neighbour was a pilot for the Portsmouth - Ryde hovercraft. He described navigating one as akin to trying to control a ball bearing on a teatray, but that said also fully understood he was second to everyone else on the water as far as the Colregs were concerned.

I had a vaguely similar very nasty encounter with a large Ribeye Rib in the eastern Solent on my then 26' AWB also doing about 2 knots. The knob head driving the thing was showing off when he made a fast turn far too close to my side and literally ended up side on to me and in full contact as he skidded during his turn. Fortunately he throttled off when he realised he was going to hit me. He then made a very rapid exit and amazingly no one was hurt and there was no damage. The thing had no name on it, which meant I could not properly identify it to Solent CG.
 
There is a high Speed Craft Code. I think,VDR is a requirement.
Operating a high speed craft. is a bit different and requires a particularly good look out.
Odds are the small boat was just was not seen and planned for appropriately early. Rather than a deliberate attempt to intimidate. Particularly if it was a training voyage.
Not sure what if anything the MCA will be able to do.

Try reporting to CHIRP. the RYA website has a link.

Confidential Hazardous Incident Reporting Program. They will certainly contact the company involved directly and ask them to participate in their investigation for a report. They wont blame or point fingers but will come up with findings about what actually happened and make recommendations to help prevent a reoccurrence.
 
Comrade Red said:
I'm not gonna respond to the post either, so maybe I need to get a special dispensation to post too :)

(Especially given another recent post from another Solent sailor who didn't like anyone veering off course :) :) :) - is that enough smileys for the serious /joyless types on here?)

Topcat- sounds quite a scary experience, glad you are ok, and hopefully will get sorted.

I was gonna recall an experience from 32 years ago when I (as a young kayak instructor) was helping take a youth group sea kayaking from Hillhead across to the needles and around the Island over a 3 day August holiday.

Day one - Hillhead to Freshwater, almost ended in death as a hovercraft ignored our safety boat and white flares, and kept going straight, right through the gap between the front group and the rear group, passing with 10m of one 14 yr old, causing a capsize, and that youth never getting in a kayak again.

Day 2, from Freshwater to past St Catherine's to Bembridge, had us constantly worried as powerboat racers cut through our group.

Day 3, heading back across the Solent, saw a very close encounter with a group of toffs on a huge yacht, who shouted abuse as they cut through the group, making no effort to avoid us.

In 4 years of doing this annual trip we never had similar happen again.

Safety boat (5m rib), white flares, paddles raised (fluro painted) - nothing made any difference. And no response to VHF except from other vessels not involved.
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This raises some issues of people in 'groups' of craft expecting others to go around the whole 'group' as if it's a single entity.
 
lw395 said:
This raises some issues of people in 'groups' of craft expecting others to go around the whole 'group' as if it's a single entity.
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Surely the only consideration is how close together the boats within the group actually are relative to the speed they are travelling?

If they are sufficiently far apart that a collision risk with one boat is not automatically a collision risk with the next boat then the fact that the boats are in a "group" is irrelevant. If the opposite is the case, then the give way boat will have to give way to the "group".

Richard
 
I used to teach sail and power yacthmaster and had a very simple view of all this. See and avoid!

In such crowded waters as the solent the col regs are useful but you simply can't rely upon others to do the right thing. I'm sure it would be very satisfactory to have your boat at the bottom on the solent while saying "but i had right of way".

So i used to teach situational awareness over using the col regs as the only way. Spot a developing situation and do something early to avoid it.

If you see a yacht on port tac coming at you while your on stb with right of way and it's obvious that nobody is looking under the sail at you..do you shout..hope they know the col regs or just do something to stop it getting dangerous.

I used to teach practical ways of doing things and not the RYA by the book method.
 
lw395 said:
This raises some issues of people in 'groups' of craft expecting others to go around the whole 'group' as if it's a single entity.
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Not really. A group of kayakers 4 or 5 metres apart is very different to 3 or 4 awbs sailing as a group.
 
Colregs seem very clear. The idea that people need to write their own rules seems odd since colregs allow for variation where appropriate. Nobody is required to 'stand on' into danger and nobody need be 'dead right' if they simply follow the rules.
Rule 2
(a). Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

(b). In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.
 
It seems to me to be very poor seamanship to sail through a group of kayaks or rowers, a potentially dangerous action and pure b****y bad manners.
 
Praxinoscope said:
It seems to me to be very poor seamanship to sail through a group of kayaks or rowers, a potentially dangerous action and pure b****y bad manners.
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This Saturday trying to sail from Portsmouth to Chichester very light E/SE breeze. Got to within 100 metres of the 'beach' passage through the submarine barrier and were approached by a safety boat. They explained they were running a rowing regatta and would we mind going through the other, main, passage. We complied albeit it took us another half hour to tack back up to the main passage.
I felt it was slightly ill mannered to expect to close a navigable channel to hold a rowing race. Still, at least it was sunny and warm.
 
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