Close Encounters

If I sailed in the congested waters of the Solent I would certainly have AIS, in fact I have AIS on my boat in West Wales, but it’s about as much use as a chocolate anchor here, in the three months since we launched for the season I have had only one AIS signal and that was crossing the Irish Sea to Southern Ireland.
I do still have a screen grab from the AIS when I last sailed off the South Coast of England and it looks like a child’s scribbling book with all the tracks on it so I can see where it does have it’s uses, however in the situation that topcat describes I don’t see that if he had AIS it would have been much of an advantage as visibility was good and he could see the hovercraft, given the speed it was travelling by the time topcat had studied his AIS a collision could have occurred. As with all the gismo’s in the World that are available to us as on our boats, they all add the proviso that none of them alleviate the requirement of keeping watch and sitting on the helm keeping a lookout and watching what other vessels are doing is still the most effective way of avoiding a ‘nasty’.
 
Elessar said:
B

Because not following the regs and standing on as one should is a source of ambiguity that can be causal in accidents.
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What's that saying about being just as dead right as if you were dead wrong....?

The regs are a great place to start with regard to expectations but they're not an invisible force field around your vessel so anybody who thinks that if they follow them they'll be fine is very much mistaken. Ultimately you always have to make sensible safe decisions according to the prevailing circumstances and in the crowded Solent I would very much suggest avoiding getting into any kind of close encounter with skippers of unknown ability is to be recommended.

The OP came on here seeking a witness to his incident and that's fair enough, however the nature of these threads means there will always be an arm chair post mortem conducted by all us experts.....

My own offering if I were to find myself in a similar situation would be (wind permitting) to make a 90 degree turn to starboard. At two knots it's not about trying to sail out of the way, it's about increasing the visual profile of your vessel and making it very obvious to the Hovercraft skipper which way you are going.
 
Praxinoscope said:
If I sailed in the congested waters of the Solent I would certainly have AIS, in fact I have AIS on my boat in West Wales, but it’s about as much use as a chocolate anchor here, in the three months since we launched for the season I have had only one AIS signal and that was crossing the Irish Sea to Southern Ireland.
I do still have a screen grab from the AIS when I last sailed off the South Coast of England and it looks like a child’s scribbling book with all the tracks on it so I can see where it does have it’s uses, however in the situation that topcat describes I don’t see that if he had AIS it would have been much of an advantage as visibility was good and he could see the hovercraft, given the speed it was travelling by the time topcat had studied his AIS a collision could have occurred. As with all the gismo’s in the World that are available to us as on our boats, they all add the proviso that none of them alleviate the requirement of keeping watch and sitting on the helm keeping a lookout and watching what other vessels are doing is still the most effective way of avoiding a ‘nasty’.
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As I raised the issue of AIS I will make it clear that I was intending its use for the enquiry to give the tracks and positions of the two vessels relative to each other not as a collision avoidance tool.
 
Triassic said:
My own offering if I were to find myself in a similar situation would be (wind permitting) to make a 90 degree turn to starboard. At two knots it's not about trying to sail out of the way, it's about increasing the visual profile of your vessel and making it very obvious to the Hovercraft skipper which way you are going.
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If you read the MAIB reports, although they don't directly apportion blame, in the event of a collision it's incredibly rare for the report not to end up mentioning something that they thought one or other of the skippers should have done differently pre-collision.

.
 
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I wasn’t suggesting that AIS had been proposed as an avoidance tool, but it is surprising how many people rely on various gizmos and forget that these are aids and don’t dispense with the need to keep watch. I can of course see that a record of tracks from an AIS could help in an enquiry
 
Stemar said:
What prevents early avoiding action is the fact that once a risk of collision exists, the stand on vessel is required to hold their speed and course
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And one of the biggest problems with the IRPCS is that "once a risk of collision exists" is undefined. Is it within a certain time? Within a certain distance? Nobody knows.
 
Praxinoscope said:
I wasn’t suggesting that AIS had been proposed as an avoidance tool, but it is surprising how many people rely on various gizmos and forget that these are aids and don’t dispense with the need to keep watch. I can of course see that a record of tracks from an AIS could help in an enquiry
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Although it is a collision avoidance tool ...... probably the best there is after eyesight, which clearly wins hands-down if only one boat has AIS. ;)

Richard
 
JumbleDuck said:
And one of the biggest problems with the IRPCS is that "once a risk of collision exists" is undefined. Is it within a certain time? Within a certain distance? Nobody knows.
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You could consider that in conjunction with Rule 7 (about the risk of collision) that each circumstance would be within the ability of either vessel to manouver to avoid a collision and as such, I reckon, cannot be quantified.
 
RichardS said:
Although it is a collision avoidance tool ...... probably the best there is after eyesight, which clearly wins hands-down if only one boat has AIS. ;)

Richard
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Its always interesting to watch the facial expressions of those intent on screen watching when you point out several vessels (various) in proximity that dont have AIS. :)
 
capnsensible said:
You could consider that in conjunction with Rule 7 (about the risk of collision) that each circumstance would be within the ability of either vessel to manouver to avoid a collision and as such, I reckon, cannot be quantified.
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Good point. The problem arises when the two vessels are very different in manoeuvrability. Ship A might correctly assess that a risk of collision exists two miles away from the point of impact while Yacht B might equally correctly assess it as existing at 1/4 mile. So whether the risk exists or not may effectively depend on whether A or B is the give-way vessel, and that concept doesn't arise until the risk does. All very circular.
 
If people are genuinely using AIS as their primary collision avoidance tool in the Solent in good weather and clear visibility.....

I'm scared.
 
flaming said:
If people are genuinely using AIS as their primary collision avoidance tool in the Solent in good weather and clear visibility.....

I'm scared.
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.... and if people are relying on the pilots of hovercraft travelling at 40kts using AIS as their primary collision avoidance tool in good visibility then I'm equally scared.

To the OP - hope you're able to get supporting evidence for the MCA investigation.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Good point. The problem arises when the two vessels are very different in manoeuvrability. Ship A might correctly assess that a risk of collision exists two miles away from the point of impact while Yacht B might equally correctly assess it as existing at 1/4 mile. So whether the risk exists or not may effectively depend on whether A or B is the give-way vessel, and that concept doesn't arise until the risk does. All very circular.
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Yeah, so often then comes down to the experience of the two masters. Inevitably, the Skipper of a Maersk Box Ship who has spent a lifetime at sea will have a better judgement of a closing situation than a leisure skipper. Nothing wrong with that, but confusing the ship is easily done. Probably the Ship makes allowances for that, but small vessels can help a lot by following the rules.

Something works, though as collisions are thankfully quite rare.
 
The trouble with the Colregs is that they assume a degree of alertness in keeping a lookout and a modicum of common sense. I'm tempted to get cynical, given the level of common sense displayed here on occasion, but the number of collisions is pretty low precisely because that modicum of common sense does tend to get used. On the rare occasion an incident occurs, 9 times out of 10 it's because of a failure of the common sense gland on the part of one or, often, both vessels.
 
flaming said:
If people are genuinely using AIS as their primary collision avoidance tool in the Solent in good weather and clear visibility.....

I'm scared.
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Judging by the number of boaters who can't even pass the correct side of two gert big red piles in a certain south coast harbour even though there are signs with arrows on said piles instructing the correct side to pass you probably have very good reason to be scared! :rolleyes:
 
flaming said:
If people are genuinely using AIS as their primary collision avoidance tool in the Solent in good weather and clear visibility.....

I'm scared.
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I'm not in the Solent but AIS is most definitely my primary collision avoidance tool in good weather and clear visibility with regard to anything that could actually do me any harm. It most definitely is not eyeball because at the time I note that there is a possibility of something big coming my way I usually can't even see it. ;)

Richard
 
That hovercraft has been up and down the Itchen also, performing turning manoeuvres as far upriver as the itchen bridge. It looks very much like it is a training vessel at the moment. It is a clumsy looking beast going in slow circles off Ocean village, and more than a tad hair raising to get past with a paranoid "did they see us" It is good at least to see a local invention still going strong and being built, developed, and trained here. Good to watch them thunder along Weston shelf - at a distance! We have found the smaller open ones out of the factory, look like training craft, are always very considerate. They seem to do a lot on practice directly under Itchen bridge.
 
interestingly that one, when it vectors its engines, the what I assume to be turbine inlets also do the same. I find them fascinating, the wife is terrified of them
 
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