Climbing mast without a ladder

[Miker]

Are there any rock climbers out there who can advise on a method of ascending/descending just using the main sheet and, perhaps, spinnaker sheet? If it can be done, what gizmos do I need and how do they work?
I normally sail with a single companion - not my wife who never goes near the boat - but am thinking of some singlehanded next year.

 

[Guest]

You can haul yourself up with a 4 part purchase, though you'll need miles of rope. This method has been used by the "old gaffer" fraternity for generations!

For a modern alternative, try a good climbing/caving shop and talk about "ascenders" and "descenders". That's the way the Vendee Globe warriors do it!

 

[peterk]

hi,

the 'old gaffer method'
(dat wot Aye emm?)
with a bosun's chair
gives you a place to sit on
while you are working.
Don't forget a sliding
saftety line on a DIFFERENT halyard.

Those ascenders are called JUMARS
I believe,

...peter, www.juprowa.com/kittel

 

[VMALLOWS]

I use a climbing ascender (usually called a JUMAR ...trade name). with a foot strop attached. Real climbers would probably use a pair of them and manage on their own, but I do it one heave at the time, with someone trailing the bosuns chair (with no load on it). Its coming down that generally worries me more!......in case the person at the bottom just lets go!!. You can slide the ascender down a bit at a time, but tends to get tedious. There are also figure-of-eight climbing thingys. Have got one but never tried it.

 

[Miker]

Sounds useful but how do they work?

Thanks for the info. Sorry to be thick but could someone please explain in simple words how these ascenders work. I assume that descenders are like abseiling.

 

[VMALLOWS]

Re: Sounds useful but how do they work?

Yes, of course.

They are essentially just 'clutches' with a handle. You slide it up a rope (about 8mm) by pulling in on a 'trigger'. Release the trigger and and haul yourself up. The foot strop means you can use leg mussles to assist (much easier). Have a look in a camping/climbing shop....you will soon get the idea.

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Sounds useful but how do they work?

VM is correct. Jumars (or other similar devices) allow a small clamp to go in one direction up a rope and clamp hard. Hang a rope with a loop off of it, and you have a foot platform. Use two, and you can use two feet.

You could also as mentioned use a further one on a parallel rope as a safety. Climbers do not do this, and you would find it difficult to move the Jumar up the parallel rope as the rope has no tension on it (think about this a little..it would be possible in a sailing scenario, highly unlikely in a climbing one)

Jumars get you up, but not down. Hence the figure of eight also mentioned. This is an (old fashioned) way of allowing a controlled descent involving an understanding of the art of abseiling. Very easy and safe, but you would need instruction before attempting from the top of a mast without ever doing it before

PM be and I'll avoid boring everyone else if you need more infoVM is correct. Jumars (or other similar devices) allow a small clamp to go in one direction up a rope and clamp hard. Hang a rope with a loop off of it, and you have a foot platform. Use two, and you can use two feet.

You could also as mentioned use a further one on a parallel rope as a safety. Climbers do not do this, and you would find it difficult to move the Jumar up the parallel rope as the rope has no tension on it (think about this a little..it would be possible in a sailing scenario, highly unlikely in a climbing one)

Jumars get you up, but not down. Hence the figure of eight also mentioned. This is an (old fashioned) way of allowing a controlled descent involving an understanding of the art of abseiling. Very easy and safe, but you would need instruction before attempting from the top of a mast without ever doing it before

PM be and I'll avoid boring everyone else if you need more info

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: Sounds useful but how do they work?

It's not boring. Please don't PM the reply. This is the kind of info this board is about. ;-) J

 

[extravert]

I am a climber and a sailor so have used all the gizmos people talk about for ascending and descending.

As people have said, Jumars or ascenders are devices that slide one way on a rope but not the other way. They do this by having a rotating cam like widget that bears against the rope that is captive in a channel. You need a pair of them, using them alternatively, ie your weight on one, then push up the other. One will be connected to your harness, the other will have a loop hanging from it with your feet in it. They work, but it's a hard and slow method of going up. Your feet will suffer in soft shoes. Use a stout pair of boots.

An alternative is to use Prussig knots. These are a special knot where a loop of thin rope is tied round the thicker main rope (ie halyard). When the knot is loaded it grips, but can be loosened to slide. The loop of rope used to tie the Prussig knot must be considerably thinner than the rope it is tied round, otherwise it does not grip properly. There was a photograph in a sailing magazine a while ago of this knot where the thinner rope was not much thinner than the main rope. This was a dangerous photo in my opinion, and the author had probably never used one in anger, as you won't get far off the ground with the wrong rope combination.

Coming down is a different matter. Jumars can be used, but it's a fiddle. You have to hold the cam away from the rope and slide it downwards. However, as long as you only touch one Jumar at a time, you can't really go wrong by releasing both at the same time.

Using Prussigs to come down is really just the opposite of going up, loosen-slide-tighten. You m ust ensure that the one to be loaded is secure before loosening the other.

If you used Jumars or Prussigs to go up, you could use a descender to abseil down, but I would not advise it. There are 2 reasons for this - first you have to change your method of what is holding you up, ie unclip from the Jumar and clip to the descender, not a good idea really. Secondly, with abseiling, whatever descender you use (figure of 8, Tuber, Sticht plate) if you get it wrong and let go of the controlling end of the rope, there is only one result - whoosh/splat. Abseiling on your own without a safety line is about the most dangerous thing that climbers do, and they avoid it if they value their lives. I have seen a very near escape climbing in the Alps when my climbing partner was hit by a stonefall while abseiling and let go of the rope while abseiling. It was only the stopper knots that I tied into the ends of the abseil rope that saved his life.

So, this is a climbers opinion...

Avoid mast ascending if you can, it's always a risk. A top fall will probably kill you.

Avoid going up on your own if you can. Can you take a friend to winch you up?

Prussiging is OK if you know how. It's simple and cheap, but if you don't know how, don't. It's not infallible.

Always avoid abseiling without a safety rope controlled by someone else.

Jumar's are probably the safest and least error prone. Get some from a climbing shop and talk to the person selling them, they are usually climbers. Tell them why you want them and if possible take a sample of rope that you will be using them on. Get them to give you a demonstration. Get some screw-gate karabiners and a decent climbing sling as the strop.

As an additional safety back up, use a third Jumar on another separate halyard. There is a good climbing saying which I think came from Don Whillans and which is Gospel to all climbers who value their lives - 'Why use two when three will do?'

 

[tcm]

Re: nutcase option

I've heard that, atseas and without all this gear, and without much time, the fastest way up is to set a lot of sail to lean the boat over and just run along (up) the main! Sounds fabulous! More of a part time sailor me so...is this definitely rubbish bartalk, or is it a possibility?

 

[mldpt]

I use two dumars on one haliard attached to the deck and winched tight on a second spare haliard also attached to the deck, I use a third dumar as a safety line. I attach my bosons chair to the top duar and have two loops attached to the lower one, I start by sitting in the bosons chair, pull the lower dumar with feet in straps up as high as possible then stand in straps and slide the upper dumar up as far as I can reach, sit down and slide the lower one up again, its a matter of trial and error to get the right amount to slide them up depends on how strong you are its easy in small amounts at a time, the safety line I have attached to my sailing harness and as I go up I slide the dumar up with me. coming down is a bit tedious but just the reverse, but remember to slide the safety line down with you, or you will have to go back up to fetch it down. I have done this many times and feel much happier than depending on someone below winching me up, I was left up there once while my mate went off for a cup of tea on another boat.
Mikw

 

[jollyjacktar]

Have a look at....

Have a look at http://www.atninc.com/ for an idea using ascender thinghies.

 

[Plum]

I use a traditional bosun's chair on a three part tackle that is hoisted to the masthead on a halyard. I have seen people use a four-part tackle but I have found that three part, if you use ball-bearing blocks works just fine and the length of string is reduced. The lower, single, block is a ratchet block which makes hoisting easier. I then have a chest harness attached to a short length of line which I fasten to a second halyard with a prussic knot to act as a safety line. I usually use a crew member on deck just to take up and pay out the tail so it does not get caught on anything, but you could take up a cloth bag into which you stuff the tail as you go up if you are on your own. If you are going to work for more that a few minutes at a time aloft then you really need a bosuns chair or sit harness so you can use both hands freely to do the job in question without having to keep a grip. Make sure that the bosun's chair attachment point is as low as possible otherwise when you are at the top you may not be able to reach the masthead light.

 

[Metabarca]

Because it\'s there

Perhaps a small point, but jumars tend to cause more wear and tear on a rope than prussik loops (and are much more expensive, of course!). The latter are a bit of a fiddle to do right (but, hell, we yotties know how to do knots, don't we!...) and gve an impression of being less bomb-proof, although they're only slightly dodgy if the rope is wet and becoming icy.
Before you reach for the hacksaw to solve your problem, don't worry, it's not that hard/hairy! Certainly I would have a back-up on a separate halliard. If you tie the halliard down taut to the deck, that resolved the problem of tension as you slip the jumar or prussik up it as you ascend.
I agree with not using the descendeur - it's something else to go wrong with all the swapping of hardware and what not. I personally would go for two prussiks (one for feet, one for bum) on the main halliard, and a back-up on the spare halliard. Then to come down, just loosen the lower knot, slip it down, tighten and tension it and repeat with the other too. Nice and safe, and no wooshing or splatting noises.

 

[Jacket]

Fractional rig

With all this talk about safety lines, can I ask what people with fractional rigs use as a safety line? If I'm only going part way up a mast I'll use the main and genoa halliard. But if I'm going to the masthead, the only halliard I've got is the main halliard, so I have to make do without a safety line for the last part of the climb.

I've not got a topping lift, and even if I did, the topping lift on a 24 footer is unlikely to be strong enough to support me.

 

[Plum]

Re: Fractional rig

I have a gaffer so have a few more lines to choose from, but I deliberately made my topping lift 10mm polyester, same as all the other halyards, so I could use it for mast climbing too (and also as a spare halyard in an emergency)

 

[charles_reed]

I sail single handed and have a fractional rig boat (15m) mast height.

I purchased a tape ladder which goes up the groove of the main on the main halyard.
Though I'd not recommend using it at sea it's OK for a 14 stone 66 year-old in harbour (I'd also not recommend looking down, everyone looks curiously foreshortened in a most Alice-Through-the-Looking-Glass manner).
I've got the address an dtel no in the boat - emial if you want it.

You'll need to send a slide as a pattern or give them your luff-rope size.

 

[Miker]

Thanks everyone...

for your excellent postings. I think that I now understand what's wanted.
It sounds easier and cheaper than buying a ladder.

 

[BrendanS]

Re: nutcase option

Would love to see this....from another boat!

 

[chriscallender]

Re: nutcase option

He he - as long as you didn't sail alongside the nutcase and create a wind shadow...! Otherwise I imagine the person at the top of the mast might then be catapulted some considerable distance into the sea!