Cleats in Bathing Platform

jrudge

jrudge

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This is being discussed on the Blue Angel rebuild thread ( and it really is a rebuild!)

My squadron 58 has a Williams on the back.

In the med other than being moored overnight in good weather ( and even then ...) you have crossed lines at the back to stop the stern moving side to side.

Depending on the dock height most of the time this does not work out well and the lines will foul the tender. You can either go under or over.

I have chafed through my cross lines over winter AND broken a tender cradle as the forces can be quite big.

The solution by the boat guy is to rig more lines from the bollards to make the cross lines into triangles. It works but is messy.

I had been thinking about cleats in the platform and the thread above reminded me - this is a problem that needs solving!

The S58 platform is not really a platform at all but is part of the hull.

A assume there is no reason why I cannot install a pop up cleat in both rear corners of the platform?

I am conscious that the loads in a decent swell or big wind can be pretty significant, but the platform is part of the hull.

Any guidance appreciated.

Assuming that the forum considers this viable then do i simply make up a decent sized backing plate in say 10-15mm Marine ply and bolt it down or does that backing plate need fibreglassing as well?

Access into the area under the platform is quite challenging ( the middle is OK but the corner areas will be difficult and the thought of fibreglassing down there would seem very difficult for anyone - not to mention the fumes). I am not comply sure someone could gain access at all. The platform also seems to have an aluminium skin as getting self tappers in for the tender tide downs was very difficult.. ... but using tappers will be non starter I suspect - even large ones.

Guidance as ever appreciated.
 
We have the same problem, not quite so bad, looked into doing the same on the bathing platform (ours is also part of hull) the problem is getting access to glass the backing plates in, seems almost impossible. Our passerelle is very substantial so we have incorporated SS shackles underneath & thread the springs thro' them, lifted partially up it keeps the lines off the rib without too much strain on it.

Don't have another solution to offer, sorry.
 
I did consider the cross lines running to the centre paserelle mounting brackets but I don’t fancy ripping off the paserelle !

I don’t think what you suggest would work for us as the cleats are either low or too so the line would not really be supported as such but chafing up or down. I will however take a long look to see if it could work
 
Backing pads 15mm not glassed in will be fine, but bed them onto polyurethane e.g. 3m 4200FC.
Make them a big size, obviously.
The aluminium is only there in blocks in specific locations, for fairline to drill and tap. You probably won't have it at the two corners where you want these cleats.
All sounds good. The port one is reachable but starboard is v v v difficult. You could consider a single cleat in the centre- easy to reach.
 
jfm said:
Backing pads 15mm not glassed in will be fine, but bed them onto polyurethane e.g. 3m 4200FC.
Make them a big size, obviously.
The aluminium is only there in blocks in specific locations, for fairline to drill and tap. You probably won't have it at the two corners where you want these cleats.
All sounds good. The port one is reachable but starboard is v v v difficult. You could consider a single cleat in the centre- easy to reach.
Click to expand...

Centre one is a good idea thank you.

How big does a backing pad need to be ?
 
Will a single popup cleat be meaty enough to handle the loads when there's wind/swell to contend with? (I've only ever seen quite small popup cleats, maybe bigger ones exist). The only other thing to consider is the risk of stubbing your toes on anything at all mounted on the platform. I've broken both of my little toes by stubbing them on the boat, it isn't fun.
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
Will a single popup cleat be meaty enough to handle the loads when there's wind/swell to contend with? (I've only ever seen quite small popup cleats, maybe bigger ones exist). The only other thing to consider is the risk of stubbing your toes on anything at all mounted on the platform. I've broken both of my little toes by stubbing them on the boat, it isn't fun.
Click to expand...

I did manage to find (ebay of course) some aluminum 200+mm long popup cleats which I've added in MiToS, however experience is not great things are slightly wobbly, a pain to pop-up and tbh only good enough for having them flush...

J, do keep in mind that popup cleats need a drain, so if you do install such things, make sure that sea/rain water from them does have a place to drain, if it's the rear bilge, fine, if they just stay there, not fine. Not sure of the construction and how it works on your boat.

cheers

V.
 
If the access and space under the bathing platform is similar to our 52, I found that if you lift out the trim tab boxes and lay on the hull ,this will give you sufficient room to get all the way up to the starboard corner,Have had to do this several times, also carried reglassing ,you will need to have someone mix and pass you materials as not a lot of room ,but is possible, trick is to stay relaxed , not recommended to anyone that suffers from confined spaces :)
 
I had the same problem on my Ferretti 57. Again the platform is part of the hull and there is good access to the inside. So I bought the largest pop up cleats I could find and large backing plates against the flat GRP, and used them as crossed over spring lines for years without any problem. They were not tow the titanic strong but enough to cope with the side to side forces involved. I also kept my straight to the dock stern lines reasonably tight so that the springs were really only that and not carrying the weight of the boat.
 
I need to do exactly the same - I think a centre cleat is the best option because I think the stbd corner will be hard to reach due to the swim ladder. My only worry is that with both my neighbours not having springs, will I be needing to handle the loads from their boat too?
 
BartW said:
the cleats I intended to install on my platform are these:





http://www.metalstyle.com/eng/prodotti/QUEEN-67.html

they are Very very solid and flush mount. (and not cheap)
I'm not going to install them, so the pair is for sale if interested, (prefer to keep the pair together)

I'don't know if they fit your application.
Click to expand...

Very nice too - and so flush as to not be at all toe-stubbery! :encouragement:
 
Thanks all.

Jimmy ..

You have now replied yourself re toes - so I hope they are now safe ( I replaced my side deck lights as someone thought that a 1cm protruding light would be fun to break toes as well ...!)

The loads should be Ok as only one side can pull at a time.

A centre cleat is a PITA as the tender over hangs, but the problem needs to be solved ( a real problem as opposed to an invented first world one!)

Re draining - that is interesting. I had seen some have drains, but assumed others just filled with water that was displaced once the cleat was pushed down. Maybe not ... same ... more complexity. ... hey its a boat!

markc - maybe we buy one of Barts cleats each!


Re the aluminium core I asked on the Fairline Facebook Group. JFM is right ( quell surprise!) that the Aluminium is only where fairline needed it ( which of course I dont know!). It is apparently 6mm thick which explains why getting the large self tappers in to hold down the tender was so difficult - it also explains whey they dont pull out so every cloud etc!

I will take a good look next time I am down, but from what I have seen in the past I think a centre cleat is probably the only practical suggestion. I suppose a cheap metal detector would tell me where the Aluminium was making a tapped hole a possibility?
 
jrudge said:
Centre one is a good idea thank you.
How big does a backing pad need to be ?
Click to expand...
I'm afraid the answer has to be it depends, J.
The fact that you have neither a hi/lo nor an overhang platform means that you can fit platform cleats to start with, but how to fit them mostly depends on how solid the lamination is in the specific point where you want to install them.
When I fitted mine, I could check this directly with the builder, who told me that I could have used them to pull up the whole boat with a crane - something which I could really appreciate only after having made the holes.
So, I didn't even need any real backing pads. All I had to make were a couple of angled wooden chocks, mostly meant to form an aligned base underneath, where the bolts were fitted with the largest washers I could find - see first pic below, the final result being as per the second pic.
As you can see, I didn't put them in the corner because I couldn't on port side, as well as I couldn't put the port one closer to inner part of the swim platform handles, because the underneath part was unreachable.
Stbd position followed, purely out of aesthetic/symmetric reasons - geometrically, they are distant enough to be as effective as if they were in the corner, anyhow.
Fwiw, I would never fit just one in the center though, regardless of whether you can fit a strong enough one.
The main reason is that I hate having to use the same cleat for two lines - ever.
You can see the specific cleats I used in BA thread - 260mm long model, rated for 3T load.
And knowing how they were installed, even if I'm not planning to try hanging the boat to them :D, I'm very confident that they will withstand just about anything!

iAOSyRRF_o.jpg


tn39gibf_o.jpg
 
jrudge said:
Re draining - that is interesting. I had seen some have drains, but assumed others just filled with water that was displaced once the cleat was pushed down. Maybe not ... same ... more complexity. ... hey its a boat!
Click to expand...
For the records, you can see in my first pic above that in the cleats I fitted there are two holes, and Foresti & Suardi also sells a "U" shaped plastic tube, with a single tube underneath that you can route somewhere for draining.
But F&S themselves suggested me to not bother, because the cleat slides in/out enclosed in a couple of O/Rs, so if any water can find its way down, it can only be a matter of a few drops per season - practically irrelevant.
They even told me that their larger model is standard fitting in some 100+ feet Sanlorenzos, who install them without any drains.
 
Aha, I see what you mean.
It's a pity that those side "cheeks" at the stern became so popular among builders after the mid 90s (also in my boat btw, though a bit less extended than in yours), just for aesthetic reasons. The cheekless stern used for instance by Ferretti up to the 165 (afterwards abandoned with her successor model, the 57) is so much more convenient, for tender storage and accessibility.
Oh, well. You have to cook with the ingredients you have, as we say down here.
Couldn't you fit two retractable cleats, maybe longitudinally, both in the center?
I'd rather have each line attached to its own cleat anyway, regardless on their position.
If you'll ever need to maneuver/reinforce the mooring in the middle of a blow, the last thing you want is having to detach one line to handle the other one...
 
Maybe ... worried about toes ( flush or not!) and the further back they go the more they are under the tender.

That part is all but inaccessible anyway - but for winter I will find a way. Small child!
 
jrudge said:
Jimmy ..

You have now replied yourself re toes - so I hope they are now safe ( I replaced my side deck lights as someone thought that a 1cm protruding light would be fun to break toes as well ...!)
Click to expand...

Of course, if you were really being anal about it, you could easily rebate the cleat assembly into the teak by a few mm so that when it was stowed it would be totally flush. That's probably what I would do tbh.
 
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