Cleats and use of

[Sailorsam101]

Here is something that has always wound me up a bit over the years while afloat.

Walk around any marina and you will see lots of different ways people wrap ropes around cleats. Some do as many loops etc as they can...some do locking hitches so nobody can undo it again!

I used to teach sailing for a living and i taught a single but simple way...the OXO.

Once around...a single cross...once around and pull tight....i've never ever seen this come undone.

I taught this as it's easy to learn..easy to do and can be undone under extreme load.

Oh as yes i know the angle to the cleat is important and what part of the cleat touches the rope first but that's not the point of this thread.

Do people pile rope onto cleats out of some fear or is somebody actually teaching this and if so why?

 

[Tintin]

Some do it to tidy up spare rope.

Locking loops however are an abomination and I have yet to find a use for them except when I continued enough line for OXO, and then it Is only a temporary fix while I sort things out properly.

 

[Tintin]

Some do it to tidy up spare rope.

Locking loops however are an abomination and I have yet to find a use for them except when I don't have enough line for OXO, and then it Is only a temporary fix while I sort things out properly.

 

[Bobc]

A lot of people don't know how to tie a boat up.

Some tie all the lines bar tight rather than leaving a bit of slack in the breast lines. Others put knots around cleats on the pontoon (a big no-no).

Locking hitches are my pet hate, but you see them everywhere.

 

[johnalison]

My chief bugbear is people who leave a birds' nest on the marina cleat, usually with a lot of line trailing around. Somehow, this surplus line often ends up in the water after I have passed.

Many sailors rely on multiple turns but fail to start with a round turn. A German friend was unconvinced when I explained that the single turn I had made to raft up to him would not come undone. Personally, I have no objection to locking turns with synthetic line. I haven't used manila for ages.

 

[Quandary]

I am irrationally irritated by those that use a pontoon cleat with a dozen or so turnovers then make a 1/2 metre wide spiral beside it to look pretty?
FFS keep your surplus line and you knitting on deck where only you will trip over it!

 

[john_morris_uk]

Ooh! Wait until some of the mobo users see this post. I too have a dislike of locking turns on cleats but some of them are addicted to them.

To be fair, they thought I was referring to the cleats on pontoons and I’d sooner drop (or loop through) a bowline at that end, but in the boat it’s OXXO and they NEVER come undone.

An alternative at the dock end is a round turn and two half hitched on one of the uprights of the cleat.

(PS I also abhor the med practice of round the cleat and back on board.)

 

[NealB]

I don't use locking turns myself, but, in over fifty years, I have sailed on many different boats, with different skippers and crews.

I don't recall ever seeing a line that has been jammed because of a locking turn on top of an OXO.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I don't use locking turns myself, but, in over fifty years, I have sailed on many different boats, with different skippers and crews.

I don't recall ever seeing a line that has been jammed because of a locking turn on top of an OXO.

I have. More than once. Big boat jiggling and snatching does it sometimes. It’s why I now use OXXO

 

[stevebrassett]

I've been using locking turns on top of OXO for the last 14 years. Never had one jam.

 

[flaming]

I don't mind locking turns, probably use them more than I don't, out of habit as it's what my dad taught me when I was small and a succession of instructors up to YM and further never quite drummed it out of me. I've never seen one jam up to the point where it will not release. There are some circumstances where I have used them consciously, for example a very old shiny and stiff mooring warp, on a brand new shiny cleat. I decided then that a locking hitch was a good insurance policy to that not coming off, as there was so much slack in the OXO due to the stiff warp not wanting to turn that tightly.
Also, when you do a lot of racing you realise that a lot of racing boats don't really have what cruisers would term "proper warps". And some of them get very "shiny" and low friction. Again, a locking hitch for safety just seems sensible when there's £300k of carbon fibre on the other end of it and the rope is a bit low on friction...

If you've already done OXO, then the locking hitch really doesn't take any load, it's just there to ensure that it doesn't undo. Is it needed? No, probably not. Is it hurting? No...

I think there are probably other hills to make a stand on when it comes to other people's sailing habits....

 

[jwilson]

Personally I generally do OXL or in very slippery rope OXXL, the L locking turn being last. With modern synthetic ropes locking turns are I feel necessary unless you want to always put more X's on, and they don't jam unless the line with load on slips, and if it slips it means it wasn't secure with what was under the locking turn.

All different with sisal or hemp ropes, but not much of those around these days.

What irritates me is mooring warps (bow, midships or stern) almost vertically taut down to a pontoon cleat - enormous snatch load stress on cleats if a swell or wake makes the boat roll.

 

[capnsensible]

Cant really see it matters as long as it doesnt come undone.

What used to surprise me are those that use retired non stretch lines as dock lines. Seems a bit bonkers.

Securing a boat with round turn and two half hitches (long tail its secure) has always been good for me on some moorings, especially in the Med.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Don’t get to marina’s very often, but when I do I either use a round turn and two half hitches, or a bowline, and take up all the excess rope on board.

 

[sailorman]

A lot of people don't know how to tie a boat up.

Some tie all the lines bar tight rather than leaving a bit of slack in the breast lines. Others put knots around cleats on the pontoon (a big no-no).

Locking hitches are my pet hate, but you see them everywhere.

Including marina staff

 

[bedouin]

I have. More than once. Big boat jiggling and snatching does it sometimes. It’s why I now use OXXO

If there is enough strain on the turn to make a locking turn jam then without the locking turn it would be coming undone.

On many cleats OX(X)O is just as much locking as the second O jams against the previous turns

 

[Deleted member 36384]

.... Once around...a single cross...once around and pull tight....i've never ever seen this come undone. ...

Once around...first cross...a second cross ..... once around and pull tight. This is how I was taught and it works well but when the cleat is small or the rope diameter large the single cross works better than trying to force a second cross in.

Cleat work has diminished over the years as sail controls tend to end in clutches. Also I have seen one sailing school in Scotland (Scotsail in Largs) adopt the practise of one line to tie up with and teach this: stern cleat, round the pontoon cleat as a brest line, upto the beam cleat as a spring, down to the pontoon cleat as a spring, up to the bow cleat as a brest line. All done with figure of eights on the cleats. There is nothing wrong with their method per se, but again reduces the opportunities to practise cleat work. I have no idea if this practise is regularly adopted. It used to be taught one rope for one mooring job.

Regarding how others tie up and use there lines, as long as the main pontoon has enough free space around the overhanging anchors and pulpits, I tend not to take notice of how other boats are tied up on their finger pontoon.

 

[johnalison]

(PS I also abhor the med practice of round the cleat and back on board.)

Oh dear. Bang goes my chance of going to heaven.
This is what we do. If nothing else, the line is ready to be cast off fom on board, providing that some clown hasn't put his line above mine and secured it with a birds' nest. I mostly moor in sheltered harbours, where chafe is not a problem overnight, but will make fast through the cleat's hoop if it has one. A disadvantage is that there is less elasticity in the line, so I sometimes have to put a snubbered line alongside.

 

[lw395]

I am irrationally irritated by those that use a pontoon cleat with a dozen or so turnovers then make a 1/2 metre wide spiral beside it to look pretty?
FFS keep your surplus line and you knitting on deck where only you will trip over it!

Blessed be the cheesemakers!

 

[Sailorsam101]

And I have to even started yet on people who don't underwhat type of rope to use for what when mooring up!