Cleats and use of

[ronmarson]

I'm with Mr. johnalison.
Here in the harbours on the west coast of Ireland one is never sure of what the weather may do in the night, so round the cleat and back to the boat with all lines if possible, ready to cut and run without having to faff about getting off the boat in the dark/rain/wind.
I have been known to leave the mooring line for later collection if it's been jammed by another rope.
And never a bowline, impossible to undo under strain, only an OXOL on both ends of the line.
BTW. What's a marina

 

[[70521]]

I don't really care what other boats do, but on my boat only an OXO or OXXO can be used when we are away from our home berth. There is a small fine of a bottle of Highland Park if anybody uses anything else.

 

[Porthandbuoy]

Always done it OXL; never had a problem with it jamming or coming undone.

I prefer putting a loop over the cleat, or bollard, but these days no-one seems to know that by feeding your loop up through someone else's both you and the other party can cast off without disturbing the other's line.

 

[bedouin]

And never a bowline, impossible to undo under strain, only an OXOL on both ends of the line.
BTW. What's a marina

Don't start me on people who use OXO etc on Marina cleats that may need to take ropes from more than one boat!

 

[Praxinoscope]

I'm with Mr. johnalison.
Here in the harbours on the west coast of Ireland one is never sure of what the weather may do in the night, so round the cleat and back to the boat with all lines if possible, ready to cut and run without having to faff about getting off the boat in the dark/rain/wind.
I have been known to leave the mooring line for later collection if it's been jammed by another rope.
And never a bowline, impossible to undo under strain, only an OXOL on both ends of the line.
BTW. What's a marina

You don’t need to undo a bowline, if you have made the eye the right size just list it off as you woul any loop. But agree with you round the cleat and back to the boat, this is also useful if you are short or single handed, our visitor mooring encourages this with our 5m rise and fall we have risers not rings or cleats.

 

[Stemar]

I was taught to OXXL, then a few years later the RYA changed its mind and apparently, I'll go to hell if I do that now. In practice, OXXO has never given me any grief, though if I'm staying alongside for any length of time, I'll drop a spliced eye over the pontoon cleat and bring the knitting back on board.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I’m going to take out shares in mooring line suppliers. Round the cleat and back to the boat is fine for slipping but pretty poor seamanship for mooring a boat for any length of time. Why chafe the line in the middle?

 

[TLouth7]

My problem with OXO (or OXXO) is the sheer amount of rope on the cleat, there simply isn't space with my setup to get two warps on one cleat with this method. I also dislike the fact that there is nothing stopping it coming undone (in the sense that it could in theory unwind), in the same way that I would not leave the yacht secured with several wraps around a bollard.

It is worth noting that the security of OXO relies heavily on the geometry of the cleat, and the diameter and stiffness of the warp. I would argue that a locking turn is therefore a more universal solution, suited to the OP's philosophy of a 'single but simple way'.

I use O, half an X, L and never have a problem releasing it (on a reasonably small yacht).

I take exception to the OP's claim that OXO is in some way correct to the exclusion of other options. I understand what it offers, but choose to secure my yacht in another fashion. Clearly there are many incorrect ways to tie up (insecure, or abusing shared resources), but equally there are many valid ways.

Spirals of warp tail on the pontoon on the other hand....

 

[Praxinoscope]

I’m going to take out shares in mooring line suppliers. Round the cleat and back to the boat is fine for slipping but pretty poor seamanship for mooring a boat for any length of time. Why chafe the line in the middle?

I think that in a way you may have hit the nail on the head, it depends a lot on the duration of stay and conditions.
For an overnight or similar period then around the cleat and back to the boat would seem adequate and unlikely to chafe the line, however if you were expecting a really severe swell then I would use a more secure method and have fore and aft springs.
If you are on a more or less permanent mooring then one of the more robust forms of cleaning would be better..

I’m not sure there is an absolute correct way, some of my ropes have eyes which are a quick and easy way of cleating , as is a bowline quickly dropped over the cleat, at other times I use OXO or even a round turn and two half hitches, but two things I do avoid is using so much string that no one else can use the cleat, and leaving all the excess line by the cleat the excess is on the boat end.

 

[capnsensible]

I was taught to OXXL, then a few years later the RYA changed its mind and apparently, I'll go to hell if I do that now. In practice, OXXO has never given me any grief, though if I'm staying alongside for any length of time, I'll drop a spliced eye over the pontoon cleat and bring the knitting back on board.

Once again, the mythical 'RYA method' rears its head. There is no such thing as Santa Claus either. Sorry.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I think that in a way you may have hit the nail on the head, it depends a lot on the duration of stay and conditions.
For an overnight or similar period then around the cleat and back to the boat would seem adequate and unlikely to chafe the line, however if you were expecting a really severe swell then I would use a more secure method and have fore and aft springs.
If you are on a more or less permanent mooring then one of the more robust forms of cleaning would be better..

I’m not sure there is an absolute correct way, some of my ropes have eyes which are a quick and easy way of cleating , as is a bowline quickly dropped over the cleat, at other times I use OXO or even a round turn and two half hitches, but two things I do avoid is using so much string that no one else can use the cleat, and leaving all the excess line by the cleat the excess is on the boat end.

I don’t think we’re very far apart. (Except I can’t remembef too many times when I didn’t put at least one spring on, even for the briefest it stays.)

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

You don’t need to undo a bowline, if you have made the eye the right size just list it off as you woul any loop. But agree with you round the cleat and back to the boat, this is also useful if you are short or single handed, our visitor mooring encourages this with our 5m rise and fall we have risers not rings or cleats.

Bowline and spliced loops are quite often fed in through the hole in the bottom of the cleat and then brought up and over the horns. If someone has belayed over that, you need at least three hands to get it back out without casting the offending boat adrift if there is an offshore breeze. On the other hand, if you have done this and another boat using the cleat follows suit, it's child's play to take off.

 

[johnalison]

I don’t think we’re very far apart. (Except I can’t remembef too many times when I didn’t put at least one spring on, even for the briefest it stays.)

I have never experienced chafe by looping in quiet marinas, but occasionally pass my loop through the hoop and up and over in a sort of cow hitch, more often to prevent it lifting off than to stop chafe. I am normally careful about chafe, and always cow-hitch a spliced loop for an overnight stay on a mooring.

The etiquette in box moorings is a bit different. It is quite accceptable for the second arrival to put his loop (sorry ladies) over the incumbent's. If that person wishes to leave first, it is easy enough to pass one's loop up through the other's loop and over the post, that is, unless the arriving boat has done a slip-knot which has tightened around the post, when to have his line cut free would be far too mild a punishment.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Bowline and spliced loops are quite often fed in through the hole in the bottom of the cleat and then brought up and over the horns. If someone has belayed over that, you need at least three hands to get it back out without casting the offending boat adrift if there is an offshore breeze. On the other hand, if you have done this and another boat using the cleat follows suit, it's child's play to take off.

Never understood why anyone would put the eye through the base of the cleat and then over, a loop over a cleat is secure enough.

 

[Sea-Fever]

I’m going to take out shares in mooring line suppliers. Round the cleat and back to the boat is fine for slipping but pretty poor seamanship for mooring a boat for any length of time. Why chafe the line in the middle?

This is a good point.

 

[vyv_cox]

(PS I also abhor the med practice of round the cleat and back on board.)

Why?? It is the perfect method for stern-to berthing for a whole variety of reasons.
When two boats share a cleat it avoids turns on top of those of the next boat.
The best method to achieve a reasonable distance off the wall is to secure the bow, either on anchor or lazy line, some way further out than is needed, then heave in both stern lines to get everything tight, lifting the chain off the bottom. This would be close on impossible by any other method.
When leaving the berth releasing the stern lines allows the boat to move forward, lines can be hauled aboard with no risk of them fouling the prop.
As other boats arrive and depart it is often necessary to adjust stern line lengths. Far more efficient from on board.
Not forgetting the times we have to secure to lamp posts, old ship bollards, rings and othe miscellaneous items, none of which could be done by securing ashore.

 

[Daydream believer]

First I note some one has said use the right line for the job. I would also suggest one line for one job. Not one line doubled up as spring bow line, stern line & whatever. Totally awkward in my book. Short bow & a floating stern line. Longer spring.
The short bow line is so that if it drops in the water when approaching a port it does not catch in the prop. The stern line is floating one so it does not get in the prop. The springs need to be longer but from the helm I can see if they drop in the water

At my home port I have lines spliced to the cleats to stop them being nicked (Oh yes, it used to happen a lot even though they are bright yellow & nothing like anyone elses') On the other end a spliced loop to drop over the deck cleat

In marinas I visit I have spliced loop in one end which goes through the eye of the cleat on deck & over one horn. Never slips. The line goes to the dock & back to me on deck. When berthing I might quickly do a X on the dock until berthed then sort it.
Sometimes leave the end on the pontoon if the cleat is dedicated to me & not likely to be shared then it is an X & lock
My stern line has a loop both ends. One loop goes over the spinnaker winch the other over the genoa winch so it forma bight for looping over a cleat as I berth. If the bight is too long I fix it to the genoa winch with a clove hitch.. One end can be released in an instant .
My dock lines are now 15 years old & not appreciably worn
Back on deck I do not bother with the O it does not grip. Try holding back on a rope for a boat that is berthing on a simple O it does not hold as well as a X
Do a XX & lock it off to stop any slippage. Just laying unlocked is asking for it to work loose
I never do a bowline at the dock end simple because someone will always trap it so one has to let the boat end slack first then go ashore to loosen the knot. What is the point of going back & forward twice? Just loads of extra work! Plus being single handed I would not have time to faff untying a jammed knot

 

[Resolution]

Why?? It is the perfect method for stern-to berthing for a whole variety of reasons.
When two boats share a cleat it avoids turns on top of those of the next boat.
The best method to achieve a reasonable distance off the wall is to secure the bow, either on anchor or lazy line, some way further out than is needed, then heave in both stern lines to get everything tight, lifting the chain off the bottom. This would be close on impossible by any other method.
When leaving the berth releasing the stern lines allows the boat to move forward, lines can be hauled aboard with no risk of them fouling the prop.
As other boats arrive and depart it is often necessary to adjust stern line lengths. Far more efficient from on board.
Not forgetting the times we have to secure to lamp posts, old ship bollards, rings and othe miscellaneous items, none of which could be done by securing ashore.

+1

 

[capnsensible]

Why?? It is the perfect method for stern-to berthing for a whole variety of reasons.
When two boats share a cleat it avoids turns on top of those of the next boat.
The best method to achieve a reasonable distance off the wall is to secure the bow, either on anchor or lazy line, some way further out than is needed, then heave in both stern lines to get everything tight, lifting the chain off the bottom. This would be close on impossible by any other method.
When leaving the berth releasing the stern lines allows the boat to move forward, lines can be hauled aboard with no risk of them fouling the prop.

Easy way. Once you have got the anchor cable or lazy line correct and sternlines on, simply put the engine astern to bring the fendered transom to the dock. One at a time, change dock lines to a knot that wont chafe through. Opposite when preparing to slip. Easy peasy.

Lots of West Med marinas have rings and staples embedded into the concrete dock. Have seen the metal staples wear through, let alone lots of rope. Simple cure and takes just a few minutes. :encouragement:

 

[johnalison]

Never understood why anyone would put the eye through the base of the cleat and then over, a loop over a cleat is secure enough.

Generally true but occasionally one's line goes down at an angle and a loop over feels safer. One of the problems is that one never knows what fixings will be offered as one approaches a strange harbour. I would like to see all marinas adopt a standard Eurocleat before Breggsit so that we know what we are getting. I don't actually care how anyone chooses to tie up, just so long as it doesn't interfere with or mess with other people's use of the pontoon.