Tranona
Well-Known Member
Yes, BMC 1.5 and 1.8 engines were widely used on canal boats before the modern Japanese engines came along so an obvious source for parts and service.
Claymore's Engine
- Thread starter claymore
- Start date
Yes, BMC 1.5 and 1.8 engines were widely used on canal boats before the modern Japanese engines came along so an obvious source for parts and service.
<152587>
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www.hthoward.co.uk/cylinder-liners You will know a lot more than many of the contributors if you take a look at this.
Topcat47
Well-Known Member
These guys reckon to "do" Leyland/DAF diesels. I don't have ANY knowledge of the company but they advertise "Complete" engines which are inclusive of pumps and injectors as well as those without. They also mention "short" engines but don't seem to hold them.
http://www.vegeuk.com/uk_en/engine.html
Good luck!
http://www.vegeuk.com/uk_en/engine.html
Good luck!
Thistle
Well-Known Member
But when you do come to sell you want to sell a boat with an engine which still has some life in it so planning for 25 years makes sense.
claymore
Well-Known Member
Again, thank you to all for the knowledge, information and advice you have imparted. I think i will start with Caulcutt and see where that leads.
A very grateful...
A very grateful...
<152587>
...
you can lead a horse to water but..... Finished with this thread, total bowlocks
claymore
Well-Known Member
I do apologise if I appeared not to take your advice. The site I visited on your recommendation was interesting, Caulcutt are about half the distance for me, if however they cannot meet my needs, I will research further and look again at the site you guided me to. I said from the outset that my competence is very low and so I may well favour a company that appears to offer a simple solution. Probably not the wisest of strategies but it seems to make sense to me. So - sorry if I have offended you - which your tone suggests I have. Howards are clearly specialists and experts at what they do - to be frank, I'm not confident that I could hold a conversation with them as I feel there would need to be a level of knowledge required in order to do so. As someone pointed out very early in the thread, getting over the problem of a porous cylinder - which seems to be an everyday occurence with Howards, is only to solve part of the problem and I may well find there is a multiplicity of other issues to address - which does not seem to be where Howards expertise might lie. This would appear to me that I would then have to go to other experts in order to get a complete solution to the problem. Caulcutt, at first glance, appear to offer that.
Regards
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DownWest
Well-Known Member
No need to flounce off 3rd Engines.
Your link to liners was good. I had a couple of engines with damaged bores and had them re-lined. Not in UK and quite cheap. It still needs a complete strip and rebuild. But, most marine units are not worn out by diesel standards, so most of the other bits would just go back with a clean up and fresh gaskets. As it was running fine before, why overhaul everthing? Though changing crank bearings would be a good idea, if not too pricey.
Your link to liners was good. I had a couple of engines with damaged bores and had them re-lined. Not in UK and quite cheap. It still needs a complete strip and rebuild. But, most marine units are not worn out by diesel standards, so most of the other bits would just go back with a clean up and fresh gaskets. As it was running fine before, why overhaul everthing? Though changing crank bearings would be a good idea, if not too pricey.
PowerSlapper
Well-Known Member
Before you jump in I would suggest you contact:
Southern Cylinder Grinding Co
57 Nithsdale Drive
Glasgow
G41 2PT
Telephone: 0141-423 2246
They have ground, bored, sleeved, balanced, straightened rods etc for HWMO's numerous engine rebuilds. Seems sleeving is quite a common practice and often allows the reuse old pistons with new rings saving the cost of oversize pistons
Southern Cylinder Grinding Co
57 Nithsdale Drive
Glasgow
G41 2PT
Telephone: 0141-423 2246
They have ground, bored, sleeved, balanced, straightened rods etc for HWMO's numerous engine rebuilds. Seems sleeving is quite a common practice and often allows the reuse old pistons with new rings saving the cost of oversize pistons
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Calcutts are the specialists on this particular engine. The OP says they are the nearest to him. No brainer really.
I could have said bring his engine to Rhostyllen near Wrexham, one of the finest reconditioners and manufacture of obsolete parts there called Ray Williams, a personal friend and repairer of some of my stuff. Highly recommended but pointless recommending it because it is miles away from the OP.
Stu
pcatterall
Well-Known Member
On this 'rebuild, recondition' subject and bearing in mind a recent agonising thread about legal definitions Is there a 'standard description' of what would be done to 'recondition' an engine.
I have seen some attempts by companies doing this kind of work though some have vague statements such as 'examine for wear' rather than 'measure against manufacturers tolerances'.
It would be good to have a guide in order to know just what should have been done and in case there are issues under any warranty they may offer.
I have seen some attempts by companies doing this kind of work though some have vague statements such as 'examine for wear' rather than 'measure against manufacturers tolerances'.
It would be good to have a guide in order to know just what should have been done and in case there are issues under any warranty they may offer.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
If you have read the other thread you will already know that there is no specific definition of reconditioned, remanufactured or rebuilt. The nearest you will get is the expectations the trade associations have of their members.
However if I went down memory lane to the time when I worked in the motor industry and was heavily involved in the remanufacturing sector manufacturers' service departments did indeed have standards which laid down what was required and the testing to assure those standards. However, "exchange" units which incorporated reclaimed parts were a major part of the spares and service business of most motor and ancilliary manufacturers - think Lucas electrical, Borg and Beck clutches, Girling brakes, Armstrong shock absorbers etc as well as engines, gearboxes, back axles, steering boxes, water pumps. Many of these exchange units were produced by sub contractors, hence the need for clear standards.
For all sorts of reasons, not least the fact that components and assemblies improved to the point that they lasted the life of cars, this trade declined from the 1980's on and what is left is mainly carried out by small specialist firms who do what they think the market will accept.
Despite that it is not difficult if you know what you are about to ensure that your engine is rebuilt to an appropriate standard, or that the exchange engine you buy is of a good standard. The constraint is that for most modern engines there is not a good source of supply of the components at prices that make rebuilding economically viable. On the other hand engines like the BMC B series that is the subject of this thread, (and, to an extent your Perkins) there is still a good supply of replacement parts and particularly what are called "cores" - that is old engines from scrap vehicles that can be used as a source of parts. The engines are also simple and crude by today's standards (one of the reasons they don't in general last as long as newer engines) so are simple to strip, replace or refurbish major components and assemble to a reasonable standard.
So, if the marinising parts, electrics and fuel system are still in good condition it is cheaper to recondition the base unit than fit a new engine. The big downside is that the pool of these engines is declining rapidly and this state of affairs will likely only last another 5-10 years and then you will be in the same position as owners of old style Volvos when parts get scarce and expensive such that any major work on the engine becomes uneconomic.
If you do have one of these automotive based British engines in your boat - which means it will be at least 25 years old - it is a tough call what to do. A properly rebuilt base engine is economic (as the prices in the link above show) and will last at least another 25 years, but it also means that all the other (expensive) bits - heat exchanger, pump, injector pump, starter, alternator, exhaust system, gearbox etc will be mostly the same age. It is these bits that give the problems, rarely the base engine. So, does it make sense to fit a new base engine to old parts?
It all depends on your expectations and your time horizons. The longer you look ahead the better a complete replacement - not just the engine but the whole package. On the other hand if you are only looking, say, 5 years ahead a reconditioned base engine begins to look attractive.
claymore
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you were referring to 'Gold Seal'?
penberth3
Well-Known Member
IIRC, Lucas starters had the date of manufacture stamped on the body. Basically an iron tube, this was the only bit that wouldn't fail or wear out. I've had exchange units with some really old dates.
penberth3
Well-Known Member
Yes, that was BMC/British Leyland's own brand of rebuilt engines and gearboxes, which were painted gold. The prices would make you cry today - I think a Mini short engine was something like £80! Lucas had their own service exchange scheme for electrical components.
Gunfleet
Well-Known Member
How old are you? 25 years would take some of us to 90 or beyond!
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Yes, all major manufacturers had exchange schemes as there was huge demand for replacements. Typically engines would only last 40-50000 miles (2000 hours) compared with today's expectations that small diesels such as used in boats go at least 8000 hours. Automotive engines today also have similar life expectancy, that is 3 or 4 times old 1940s designs like yours and outlast the rest of the vehicle.
The A and B series BMC engines and the 85 bore Ford engines (Anglia, Cortina etc) were the staple of reconditioners. Large volume, short life, high commonality of components and ready availability of wearing components (pistons, rings, bearings) and simple construction all helped.
So despite all the hype about "old" being "good" you have a legacy of a bygone age and have done well to get 25 year's use out of the basic engine. Just unfortunate you are the one stuck with the dilemma of what to do as it has reached the end of its useful life.
pcatterall
Well-Known Member
pcatterall
Well-Known Member
So given that my Perkins has 'lasted' 40 years I can expect a new model of engine to last 120 to 160 years
Gunfleet
Well-Known Member
There are other rules for Perkins. My Dad had a taxi in the 70s and 80s and ran up intergalactic mileages. I can still recognise one in a boat just by the sound!