Clacton RNLI

[oldgit]

This forum consists mainly of course of brave blue water sailors who no doubt have been round the horn more times than they care to remember and have a least a couple of winter crossings under there belt and all done in an Optimist.
On the other hand there are actually out there some unfortunates with less experience than our hardened old sea dogs and may have been terrified under the circumstances which has attracted sneering and derision.
Well done to those who went to assist.

 

[Adios]

This forum consists mainly of course of brave blue water sailors who no doubt have been round the horn more times than they care to remember and have a least a couple of winter crossings under there belt and all done in an Optimist.
On the other hand there are actually out there some unfortunates with less experience than our hardened old sea dogs and may have been terrified under the circumstances which has attracted sneering and derision.
Well done to those who went to assist.

Young healthy looking adults and not a baby. If they were terrified for no reason the call handler could have talked them down and reassured them that they were on hand if an actual emergency arose. "Sit tight, you'll be fine.". And then kept the services available for an actual emergency. I can't believe anyone is arguing against that even while admitting that its so much obviously the case that the guy was stood down for not reading this the way I'm saying.

 

[Biggles Wader]

I wonder why the Fire Brigade have not disciplined their ops manager for sending valuable resources to this non event then. The truth is that all the emergency services will send to almost any call unless there is a clear reason not to do so because no one wants to get into the ball game of explaining why they didnt do so when something goes horribly wrong. It seems to me that the RNLI "stood down"(sacked) their 40 year experienced ops manager because they wanted rid of a turbulent priest and probably found a suitable pretext buried in this call out somewhere. But Im just guessing because I dont know the details either

 

[Tranona]

Young healthy looking adults and not a baby. If they were terrified for no reason the call handler could have talked them down and reassured them that they were on hand if an actual emergency arose. "Sit tight, you'll be fine.". And then kept the services available for an actual emergency. I can't believe anyone is arguing against that even while admitting that its so much obviously the case that the guy was stood down for not reading this the way I'm saying.

I am astonished that you can be so certain of what happened based on 2 photographs. Based on the photo the child is maybe 7 or 8 and for all you know she may be disabled, diabetic, blind.

Just be thankful that when your turn comes to need our emergency services that they are run by professional people who have your safety at heart rather than treating your distress situation as a "learning experience" - silly boy we won't come to your aid because we think you need to suffer. You know it is good for you so just take the medicine.

 

[Adios]

Just be thankful forsaken when your turn comes to need our emergency services that they are run by professional people who have your safety at heart busied our resources with a cat up a tree instead of having them standing by for an actual emergency. rather than treating your distress situation as a "learning experience" - silly boy we won't come to your aid because we think you need to suffer. You know it is good for you so just take the medicine.

Its called triage, its completely standard to assess and allocate resources as dictated by need. Once into that probably protected mud wrestle they would not be able to leave half way if a call came in. To portray me as someone wanting people to suffer is ridiculously disingenuous, and probably dishonest, you are no doubt also thinking - how bad could it really have been to spend an evening on the boat, I do it for pleasure.

The diabetic child is far less likely than folks (judging by clothing) who are new to boats or borrowed a boat, they panicked and phoned 999. Rather than reassuring and advising, as biggles wader says, fear of being blamed overtook good sense and everyone had to get out of the boat and into the mud.

 

[Wansworth]

Must people somehow be protected from their errors or mishaps,spent a whole day aground At an inclination,the editor of P BO in those far off days stopped to offer tea which we declinEd.where is the line to be drawn,I thought this was part of being on the water if those people couldn’t be bothered to learn they can only go on to further maritime disaster

 

[Mister E]

The speculation here is so interesting why have we not had little green men yet?
We don't know what happened and why or who called who.
Please keep up the entertainment.

The only thing that we do know is the manager has been let go and he doesn't like inshore rescue boats.

 

[Tranona]

Its called triage, its completely standard to assess and allocate resources as dictated by need. Once into that probably protected mud wrestle they would not be able to leave half way if a call came in. To portray me as someone wanting people to suffer is ridiculously disingenuous, and probably dishonest, you are no doubt also thinking - how bad could it really have been to spend an evening on the boat, I do it for pleasure.

The diabetic child is far less likely than folks (judging by clothing) who are new to boats or borrowed a boat, they panicked and phoned 999. Rather than reassuring and advising, as biggles wader says, fear of being blamed overtook good sense and everyone had to get out of the boat and into the mud.

You do have a vivid imagination. and I guess the magic mushrooms were really taking effect by the time you got to post#28.

 

[Adios]

You do have a vivid imagination. and I guess the magic mushrooms were really taking effect by the time you got to post#28.

Lighten up fella

 

[GunfleetSand]

[Deleted quoted content removed]

I can’t work out if you are being casually racist, actually racist or you know these people by their family names and what they eat/ what condition their phones are in and so on. I live in East London by the way, see if you know me or what colour my skin is with your far reaching powers… Did the story change for you when you saw the colour of their skin?

 

[Juan Twothree]

I can only guess that the launch was not requested by the coastguard and that the ops manager took the decision on his own bat. That would then be the grounds for getting rid of him. The RNLI is refusing to give those details though. Sadly volunteers have very few employment rights beyond general "equalities" rights because they are not employees. Speaking out against the powers that be are sure to get a volunteer disposed of.

A Lifeboat Operations Manager is free to launch his lifeboat to any incident where he feels life is in danger, whether or not requested by the coastguard.

I don't know what happened on this job at Walton (note that it was Walton, not Clacton), but in my long experience of the RNLI they never stand down anyone on a whim, regardless of them being a volunteer.

And questioningly a decision of the powers that be wouldn't be grounds for that either.

So as the gentleman concerned doesn't want to go into details, and therefore neither does the RNLI, we'll probably never know.

 

[Adios]

There are lots of stories of people with kids rescued from stuck open boats with weather about to change - fair enough IMO

But this one caught my attention Breydon Water: Norfolk lifeboat crews rescue 17 people and three pets

The boat was listing (leaning), meaning "those on board were in some danger".
"I'd say they were extremely lucky," said Mr Hurd, when asked about the level of danger they were in.

To save them from "leaning" they were dangled under a helicopter over the open water and mud. They'd already spent the night on the mud so how long would they have left to wait? Tide appears to be practically back at the boat. They said they were going to hire another boat so clearly weren't distressed or going anywhere in a hurry.

Is there an element of if you don't use your lifeboat/helicopter you'll loose your funding. Seems to be what happened to the Walton boat. If I ever get stuck and don't mind waiting I'm going to phone the coastguard to tell them I'm ok where I am, in case someone calls it in and they put me in more danger saving me.

 

[Adios]

Another one. Muddy rescue for Conwy RNLI after going to aid of grounded boat - YBW

"There were concerns about the welfare of the casualty boat’s crew, given its isolated location up river" Sounds idyllic and just the sort of place I like to take the mud for the evening.

But rather than waiting for a distress call the lifeboat AND coast guard teams race to the rescue "on arrival at the scene the lifeboat volunteers ascertained that the crew were all wearing life jackets and that they were happy to stay on board until the next tide later in the evening." If they hadn't been wearing lifejackets in a stationary grounded boat would that have changed something? Anyway...

"Conwy RNLI lifeboat made its way back through the difficult shallows of the river back to the boathouse where it was successfully recovered and washed down.

Hours later it was called out again [presumably by the coastguard again] to provide safety cover and illumination whilst the vessel re-floated in case of damage to the boat’s hull.

By 2110, the vessel was successfully re-floated from the bank, and due to the strong flood tide, the boat was escorted safely back to Conwy Marina."

They don't seem as "Break Glass In Case Of Emergency" as I thought they were. Once again I suspect once the call came in from some well meaning member of the public, they felt they would be vulnerable to accusations if they didn't go full rescue mode. And again when the tide came back if there was some cock-up by the boaters the coastguard/LB fear being blamed having previously had contact with them. Fear of being blamed isn't a great reason for spending donated money or tying up scant resources.

 

[Juan Twothree]

Is there an element of if you don't use your lifeboat/helicopter you'll loose your funding. Seems to be what happened to the Walton boat

Absolutely not the case. The Walton boat is being withdrawn because of issues with the pier, which needs huge repairs, but the RNLI can't carry out as they don't own it.

There is no question that an ALB is needed in the northern part of the Thames Estuary, which is why Clacton is getting a Shannon.
The discussion has been regarding what sort of ILB should be put at Walton.

 

[Juan Twothree]

Another one. Muddy rescue for Conwy RNLI after going to aid of grounded boat - YBW

"There were concerns about the welfare of the casualty boat’s crew, given its isolated location up river" Sounds idyllic and just the sort of place I like to take the mud for the evening.

But rather than waiting for a distress call the lifeboat AND coast guard teams race to the rescue "on arrival at the scene the lifeboat volunteers ascertained that the crew were all wearing life jackets and that they were happy to stay on board until the next tide later in the evening." If they hadn't been wearing lifejackets in a stationary grounded boat would that have changed something? Anyway...

"Conwy RNLI lifeboat made its way back through the difficult shallows of the river back to the boathouse where it was successfully recovered and washed down.

Hours later it was called out again [presumably by the coastguard again] to provide safety cover and illumination whilst the vessel re-floated in case of damage to the boat’s hull.

By 2110, the vessel was successfully re-floated from the bank, and due to the strong flood tide, the boat was escorted safely back to Conwy Marina."

They don't seem as "Break Glass In Case Of Emergency" as I thought they were. Once again I suspect once the call came in from some well meaning member of the public, they felt they would be vulnerable to accusations if they didn't go full rescue mode. And again when the tide came back if there was some cock-up by the boaters the coastguard/LB fear being blamed having previously had contact with them. Fear of being blamed isn't a great reason for spending donated money or tying up scant rescue resources

It would have been the CG that requested the LB to attend again in the evening.

It's not a case of fear of being blamed, it's common sense. It would have been dark by the time the boat refloated, and if the occupants managed to cock it up in daylight, there's a strong likelihood that they'd cock it up even more in the dark.

 

[Adios]

It would have been the CG that requested the LB to attend again in the evening.

It's not a case of fear of being blamed, it's common sense. It would have been dark by the time the boat refloated, and if the occupants managed to cock it up in daylight, there's a strong likelihood that they'd cock it up even more in the dark.

OK I see the sense, maybe "fair chance" more than "strong likelihood" but still, pre-emptive rescue to tie up resources?

But there is a large element of fear of being blamed as well isn't there. Once they are called to them they are somewhat answerable until they are safely back in the marina. If they drowned on the way back after they spoke to them earlier they'll be blamed in the media. After getting back if they then go out another time and drown its a separate thing, no blame.

Call me crazy but I'd have thought a grounded boat wasn't an emergency until confirmed. How about sending someone to hail them from the bank before getting everyone rushing to the station. Or do they view these non-events as a part of training so don't worry about it?

 

[nortada]

Just read this article which incudes the paragraph:
The incident on April 4 saw the lifeboat crew use their boat to help firefighters get close enough to use inflatable rescue paths to rescue a family of three from the mud on the Walton backwaters.
This is not a snide attempt to criticise the RNLI, I'm just curious what the ops manager did wrong to warrant his dismissal. Anyone got local knowledge?

This thread title and subsequent comments would have a little more credibility if it was about the right lifeboat. The vessel attending was the Walton Tamar Class not the Clacton inshore boat.

There are loads of issues surrounding the Walton station and this incident was a convenient excuse to get rid of the Walton Manager, whose family has been intimately involved with the Walton boat for many generations and like the crew have unrivalled knowledge of these waters with their particular hazards.

When the RNLI have pushed through their ‘plan’, in the event of a subsequent attributable accident, I trust those responsible will identified and held to account.

Walton is very proud of it’s long lifeboat tradition and I understand there is a rumour that Walton may continue with its own non-RNLI boat.

Before somebody says this can’t happen, in the past Walton had 2 lifeboats, the ‘institute, boat and the True to the Core local life boat. No love lost, the 2 boats used to compete to answer calls - not the best situation.

Of course, Walton already has its own lifeboat The James Stevens a retire RNLI boat, moored at Titchmarsh Marina. During it’s 27 years in service the James Stevens helped save 227 lives so it would appear that Walton needs a suitable life boat.

 

[Juan Twothree]

OK I see the sense, maybe "fair chance" more than "strong likelihood" but still, pre-emptive rescue to tie up resources?

But there is a large element of fear of being blamed as well isn't there. Once they are called to them they are somewhat answerable until they are safely back in the marina. If they drowned on the way back after they spoke to them earlier they'll be blamed in the media. After getting back if they then go out another time and drown its a separate thing, no blame.

Call me crazy but I'd have thought a grounded boat wasn't an emergency until confirmed. How about sending someone to hail them from the bank before getting everyone rushing to the station. Or do they view these non-events as a part of training so don't worry about it?

Once a lifeboat has accepted a tasking from the CG then, unless there are issues with lifeboat serviceability or crew welfare, they are committed to that incident until stood down by the CG.

They can't unilaterally decide that they've done their bit, and go home.

 

[nortada]

OK I see the sense, maybe "fair chance" more than "strong likelihood" but still, pre-emptive rescue to tie up resources?

But there is a large element of fear of being blamed as well isn't there. Once they are called to them they are somewhat answerable until they are safely back in the marina. If they drowned on the way back after they spoke to them earlier they'll be blamed in the media. After getting back if they then go out another time and drown its a separate thing, no blame.

Call me crazy but I'd have thought a grounded boat wasn't an emergency until confirmed. How about sending someone to hail them from the bank before getting everyone rushing to the station. Or do they view these non-events as a part of training so don't worry about it?

‘Hail them from the bank’, clearly you have a clear understanding of the Walton and the Backwaters area of operations. Not that many shouts involve the Backwaters.

 

[Juan Twothree]

‘Hail them from the bank’, clearly you have a clear understanding of the Walton area of operations.

And "hailing from the bank" wouldn't be down to the RNLI in any case.

The CG ops will often task a CRT to assess the condition of a casualty vessel from the shore before deciding whether or not to request a lifeboat.