Choose Volvo Penta D3-160SX or D3-190SX

BartW

BartW

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My old boat is sold, I am in the luxury position that I can specifie (and afford) a new boat. Choise has been made for a Karnic 2660, hull length 26ft, loa 28ft, total weight 2.6Ton.
Boat is available with 1 x D3-190 or 2 x D3-130 or 2 x D3-160 or 2 x Merc 4.3MPI 220HP petrol.
I guess, with some extra money the 2 x D3-190 is available aswell.
I made a test drive with a 2 x D3-160, boat goes very well, fast on plane, max speed 35kn.
Aside from the extra money, would it make sense to go for the 2 x D3-190 ? would this engine give some extra fun, or is it just a waste of money ?
As the 2 x 225hp Petrol is available, that makes me believe there is some headroom for horse power on this boat.
What does the forum think ?
 
question is, how much clobber and boddies were on board when you tried the smaller engines, compared to how you might actually use it ?
Nothing worse than being underpowered -but maybe 160s are enough...?
 
Hi as a ruleof thumbit is allways best to overpower than under power ,however please read {volvo on trial sept 07 M B Y}it seems they had &still have problems with the D 3,the D 4may be a btter option regards m m 1
 
at trial we were only 3 adults in the boat, but yes I am concerned, cause we will use her for diving, 8 divers and their equipmenst is a lot of weight,
nevertheless I read a test of this boat with 2 x merc 117hp, and even this test was OK.
Yes also a valid remark on the D3 reliability, I read some concerns on this aswell, especially as 190HP is really a lot from such a leightweight diesel engine.
The D3 has nevertheless the pest power to weight ratio, considering we want to trailer the boat.
thanks for the advice
 
We go far in open sea, therefor I would like a double engine boat,
what means iffy ?
who else has good / bad experience with VP D3 ?
 
Hi again just for info most north sea fishing boats are single engine,the larger D4 sounds a good idea,D3 probs were overheating,air filter,difficult to winterize according to MBY regards m m 1
 
Yes you need two if they are Volvos /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Single Yanmar would be my preferance.

No experience of D3's myself just what has been on here and in the mags, see MBY september for an article on D3 overheating, intercooler blockages, oils leaks etc...
 
Whatever engines you choose I would have a re think about your proposed 8 divers. You mention that you would be travelling long distances in open sea which pre supposes that you would be doubling up on cylinders possible unless you are all techies with rebreathers.
Think you're overloading it.
 
I've often heard quoted that the rough rule of thumb is 75hp per tonne dry weight for good performance. 2 x D3 160 gives you 123hp/tonne. Even loaded up I'd have thought this was more than enough horses.

Just for comparison, my boat is 4.5 tonnes and has 300hp which is only 66hp/tonne, but I still get very nearly 30 knots out of her.
 
Don't worry howard, when I go far in open sea it wont be 8, but maximum 6 divers and double scuba thanks. My old boat (24ft) has been used a lot with 8 divers and single scuba thanks for diving in Oosterschelde, or 4 divers and double scuba thanks in open sea, planing was difficult sometimes.
My next boat has to do a little better hopefully,
but thanks anyway for all your advice
 
Unless volvo can assure they have sorted the problem then I would look elsewhere for a new engine, try yanmar though the merc leg is not the best around, would be a d4b my choice d4 260 hp if its still around.
 
Volvo Paul, I am really concerned, Is the D3 really such a bad engine? so many problems?
Can Volvo afford to have consisting problems with D3 ?
I guess they supply more then one D3 every now and then.
Honestly speaking, if the service of Yanmar engine is of the same level as their response to technical and commercial questions, then it is a disaster. If Yanmar response to enquieries would have been better I would have changed the engine of my previous boat to a Yanmar, but unfortunotly their response was a disaster, at least in my area.
I hope that the Volvo service level is better, who knows ?
Who knows how many D3's are around ?
Do all of them have problems ?
pls advice,
thank you all for the very helpfull advice
 
I believe the Karnics are available with Steyr as an engine option? I'd go for Austrian engineering over Swedish any day...

If so then that is the one I would go for; 2 x 256 6cyls would be a good option and close to the D3s on weight [the D4 is a LOT heavier and a lumpy old four cylinder engine].

Also I think there is a 280hp version coming soon so perhaps you could get away with just the one of those.

Mainly supplied with Mercruiser legs but I believe the right Bravo 2X diesel? is reasonably well sorted now.
 
Paul you're right about the vailability of steyr on Karnic, and probably also about steyr's engineering quality, but the weight of the 6cyl steyr is exactly 100kg more then a D3, so for two engines it is 200 kg, then the boat becomes almost untrailarable (total weight incl trailer over 3.5T)
moreover, if I am in the south of Kroatia, or south of France, or even in Belgium, and I have a problem with the steyr engine, where can I get service ?
do you know how much Steyr experiece or info is around compared to Volvo ?
how many Steyrs are actually in use for marine applications ?
But yes, Steyr has the reputation of being a very good engine, I am just wondering where that reputation comes from.
but anyway, thanks for the advice,
"every" advice is good advice!
 
Bart,

You are right about the market for light weight 200hp diesel sterndrives it's quite tricky for a towable twin engine installation.

I am sure you have done the research but, I think your choices are;

CMD QSD 2.0 170 + Bravo - 310 KG, 170 HP 4 Cyl
Volvo D3 290 + Volvo SX - 325 KG, 190 HP 5 Cyl [Volvo 2.5L car based]
Yanmar 4BY180 + Bravo - 348 KG, 180 HP 4 Cyl [BMW 2L car based]
FNM HPEP 250 + Bravo - 355 KG, 250 HP 5 Cyl [Alfa 2.5L car based]
Steyr 284 + Bravo - 369 KG, 180 HP 4 Cyl [Own Design 2.1L]
Steyr 256 + Bravo - 435 KG, 250 HP 6 Cyl [Own Design 3.2L]

I cannot recommend any of the above from personal experience but in researching a re-engine for our boat came up with the above choices.

Good thing about t'internet is nowadays you can do your own research and therefore if [like the Volvo D3] there may be some questions over reliablity you can find that out and make your own mind up.

A difficult choice I know, Volvo are so dominant in the market place and that really knocks on to parts and service availability / value and resale issues.

But especially with all these modern electronically controlled diesels you don't want something that's a bit crap and underdeveloped. At least if there are loads about chances are you can find someone who knows all their foibles and how to fix em. bit like a modern car really...

Good luck.

Paul.
 
Bart,

On the Karnic I would push the budget and get the 190hp. A few months ago I was after a pair of 160hp D3's for a project boat. Having done a lot of research I realised the 190hp was better power to weight ratio for not a lot else. The D3 are economical whichever engine you get but the 190hp just has that extra bit of grunt for little cost.

The D3 is not bulletproof, but you get weight savings and economy.

Great Combo of boat and engine!

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Only faults with your selections on research....

The QSD 2.0 are very hard to get hold off. We are still awaiting expected delivery times for a project. Been released over a year and basic service items are on 3 week lead times!!!

The FNM is a Fiat engine. Friend of mine is the importer. Not a popular engine very noisy. But parts readily available but then think of resell. Will the boat importer fit them?? Most manufacturers have compatible looms for common engines on the production line.

Steyr very good solid engine. Parts are expensive as too are service items. Back up from Mermaid is not 100% and service dealers are not as readily available through europe as Merc and Volvo and Yanmar.

The new Yanmars are still bogged down with reliability issues. Yes its a BMW but its made by Steyr different to the units they produce for marine use. Also with the new Yanmar`s as they are not main stream like the older 4LH and 6LP`s the diagnostic equipment is not in the hands of the dealers yet. So if you do have issues your gonna be stuck for a while whilst they get hold of test machines and information.

I think personally on this subject here the D3 option is the better. The faults are known about. The dealers are widely available with equipment and spares and knowledge of the product. Or if petrol is an option the Merc 4.3mpi same reasons with the Volvo, parts, fault knowledge, tools and test equipment.
 
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