Chocking up a fin keel yacht

[hoverjumper]

I've searched these forums and the wider internet and can find no guidance on this. I'm lifting my Feeling 326 (10m LOA, 1.5m draft) Fin Keeler out for the winter. The problem is my marina has no boatyard facilities, I hire my own crane and prop up my own boat. If necessary I find my own cradle.

I have the use of a cradle which is probably too small for my boat. I am planning to use it for stability and bolster it with lots of wooden props and wedges then secure them with cross-bracing. I will probably unstep the mast for piece of mind.

I'm sure I've seen fin keelers propped up without a cradle. Can anyone offer any words of wisdom on how I should go about this and what considerations I should make?

I would also like to drop out the rudder, she'll be standing on tarmac for the winter, so I can't dig a hole to drop the rudder into. Is it possible to safely drop the rudder whilst the boat hangs in the slings?

 

[Skysail]

Its normal to prop up a fin keeler. I have watched it a dozen times for my boats; these are observations, not recommendations. It looks like skilled work!

You need a dozen 6 inch props of the correct length, plus 25 or so wedges 6 inches wide.

Lower the keel on to wooden blocks to take the weight but support the boat level with the crane. Offer up the props at an angle of about 30 deg to vertical. Cut to size if necessary - a chain saw is useful. Remove any loose material at the foot of the prop. Insert wedges at foot and at hull and hammer in - be careful! The props need to be at bulkheads, not unsupported hull panels. A prop is needed under bow and at stern. Cross battens nailed across the props are a good idea.


Go watch it at another marina, or talk to a boatyard crane driver. Personally I would hire a boatyard guy for the time it takes - about half an hour for a skilled guy.

 

[sjclewes]

my old sadler 29 on wooden strops what a great boat well missed

 

[William_H]

Propping up a Fin Keeler

You need to address 2 problems. Firstly the boat is likely to be very stern heavy in terms of sitting on the keel however it may balance or be bow heavy. You need support under the bow and stern by way of a cross member to lower the boat onto or to slip under the stern.

Next you need to get the boat to stand up and not fall over sideways.

I would suggest that a frame be built with a cross member across on the ground with verticals outside the gunwhale but close to width at the point of fitting. Braced from the middle of the cross member A futher cross member could be mounted at an appropriate height to support the stern. If this arrangement is duplicated ahead of the keel then the 2 can be braced to one another. It would form a pretty solid cradle.

In the end I guess it depends on what you are prepared to build and pay for but you will sleep better over winter with a stout cradle. good luck olewill

 

[Keith 66]

Having worked around boats for a long time it never ceases to amaze me what people will stand their expensive investments on, rusty oil drums, rotten blocks you name it.
A lot of fin keel yachts have their centre of gravity right on the front of the keel & will tend to sit nose down with no weight on the rear end of the keel, there is a real danger they can pivot round
Contessa 32's & Twister's are prime examples & there must be others. Remember the vibration from a rigged mast in a winter gale can rapidly work props loose & then they can get spat out. A decent cradle is best.

 

[yoda]

Winter ashore

Provided you have time inthe lift dropping the rudder out is fine. Providied the cradle is big enough to provide support as you take strain off the slings then you will be best putting the boat into this first so that she is fully settled with the weight on the keel before putting props in all round. There is a real risk of dammage if you put a prop in before all the load is off the hoist of the prop causing excessive pressurein a single spot. As said elsewhere you may well find that the boat pivots as the weight comes off. You will also need to ensure that the boat stays upright. If you havn't done this before please get somebody who has done a few to help. Once settled in the cradle a good number of props tied together as shown on the Saddler should be fine. Make sure that the props are positioned on strong areas of the hull. If you are determined to leave the mast up strip off all you can, frap rigging hard to prevent vibration and even consider wrapping a warm round and round the mast as a 'vortex shredder'. I personnally thing the right size cradle is the thing to get and take away a lot of trouble and worry.

Yoda

 

[maxi]

Blocking off a fin keeled yacht

Nothing wrong with the comments already made, but one more consideration:

It will make life far less difficult for you if you ensure that the boat is absolutely level in the slings at the very outset, i.e no crew standing on a side deck & the chap controlling the slings standing absolutely amidships.

Trying to block off a yacht thay has a list, is a headache - blocking off one that is level is straight forward.

 

[Piddy]

chocked off

At Port Solent there is a choice between a steel cradle or wooden chocks. Despite not ever having expressed a preference, we have alweays been placed on a cradle. Last winter for some reason they chose to use wooden chocks which are tied together with battens, both along and under the boat. It's harder work antifouling (getting between the chocks) but easier to polish at it's a lot closer to the ground.
Our mast only came down for maintenance but the vast majority do leave them up without any issues.

I have to say the anchor rode was a bit short - but it didn't drag, even though only a CQR!

Cheers

 

[Kwik Decision]

Don't forget insurance

I'd recommend you check your insurance. Ours, with St Margarets, insists on a proper cradle for storage ashore. Fortunately I got a letter of dispensation, as they accepted that a bilge keel Salder 29 can site quite safely on her own keels.

Andy

 

[cliffordpope]

Using unbraced props looks to me like a recipe for potential disaster. A prop only needs to move a fraction of an inch and the wedges will fall out and the prop fall over. There is a standard warning about chocking boats on soft ground, and a wooden prop on tarmac can sink like a stiletto heel.

I'd even prefer the much-derided oil drum. It has a wide base area, a wide top to spread the force on the wedge, and even if it slips a bit it is inherently fail-safe.

 

[hoverjumper]

Thank You!!

A very big thank you to all! So much really useful advice already! Keep it coming!

The photos are especially useful as there are no examples nearby for me to go see.

Good idea about hiring an expert from a boatyard to come and do it. I will definitely look into that. I hadn't considered the fore/aft balance or the point about lifting her level in the slings, all good stuff! I will check my insurance too.

I wish I could afford a shiny new cradle, but I can't so I will probably go for the undersized cradle already available with wooden chocks. And I'll take the mast down, it can get pretty windy in NE Scotland!

Please keep the good advice coming, I'll post some pics once I'm done.

Eamon

 

[Piddy]

On crale

This is quite typical of the crades at Port Solent (although at taken at Southsea Marina few years ago). There's a lot less in contact with the hull.

Or this from the bow

Cheers

 

[hoverjumper]

Thanks Piddy, I can but dream of such a lovely cradle up here!
Interesting point you raise about the fewer points of contact. Also, with a cradle, you can't adjust the points of contact to coincide with bulkheads, which begs the question; Is positioning of wooden props at bulkheads really that crucial on a modern GRP hull?

 

[hoverjumper]

Moving Chocks?!

It's harder work antifouling (getting between the chocks)

Hmmmm, now I'm wondering if you can move chocks, one at a time, as you prep and paint the hull. Is this common practice, or do we dare not meddle with the skilled work of the boatyard?

 

[Ubergeekian]

Using unbraced props looks to me like a recipe for potential disaster. A prop only needs to move a fraction of an inch and the wedges will fall out and the prop fall over. There is a standard warning about chocking boats on soft ground, and a wooden prop on tarmac can sink like a stiletto heel.

My boat has spent many winters in a boatyard on unbraced props. Mind you, it was a proper traditional yard where the owners went round and check props and wedges regularly ... and I always gave them a good shake before climbing up. The props, not the owners.

I'd even prefer the much-derided oil drum. It has a wide base area, a wide top to spread the force on the wedge, and even if it slips a bit it is inherently fail-safe.

She spend a couple of years on them, too, Worked a treat: four oil drums, couple of short, wide planks, bob's yer uncle.

 

[Piddy]

With your own cradle/chocks you can do what you want but at yards such as Port Solent/Southsea etc. it's a strtictly no touch policy. They will move them for you if requested (usually at no charge)

Cheers

 

[Leighb]

Hmmmm, now I'm wondering if you can move chocks, one at a time, as you prep and paint the hull. Is this common practice, or do we dare not meddle with the skilled work of the boatyard?

I always do this with my 20 ft One Design, but I think I would be very wary on a full size yacht.

 

[ribdriver]

Thanks Piddy, I can but dream of such a lovely cradle up here!
Interesting point you raise about the fewer points of contact. Also, with a cradle, you can't adjust the points of contact to coincide with bulkheads, which begs the question; Is positioning of wooden props at bulkheads really that crucial on a modern GRP hull?

Yes. I used to work in a boatyard and you will be amazed at how much hull deflection you can get on some boats, and more so with the modern stuff as much of it seems to be much lighter in construction than the older boats.

I have to say I am quite surprised at the pic of the moody at Southsea, as none of the legs on the cradle are angled inwards at the top - ie I would say she is right on the limit for that size of cradle. Take heed of what Skysail mentioned of an angle of about 30m degrees - just have a think about the direction of the loads. Granted modern cradles are, on the whole, much stronger than some of the old 'home brew' varieties but I would have put in a couple of wooden props in at an angle to assist. Have a look at any websites for companies that sell cradles (tennamast, jacobs and yacht leg and cradle company to name a few) and they all state that the base of the cradle should be wider than the hull.

I 'think' your cradle will be alright, if used in conjunction with wooden props. You can always strap the hull to the cradle as well to stiffen it up a bit, but not essential.

When you set her down, get the driver to do it bit by bit, and get him to keep you telling you what weight he still has supported in the slings, as a boat may appear to be sat down but the driver could still have a few tonnes (depending on boat) still on his crane. Lower a bit, stop and check firmness of props and cradle. Lower and bit more and check again. Lower again etc. Once the crane driver says she is down, ask him to lower the belts by a couple of inches so they have no weight but are just off the hull. Then walk around the boat and give it a really good shake. Grab the rudder, bow if you can etc. What you are looking for is any movement in the cradle and props. If something is loose now, the boat won't go far as the belts are still almost supporting the hull if you see what I mean.

Make sure the cradle is on level ground, and if not block it up with wood (supporting all the cradle, not just a corner as they can bend alarmingly).

At the point of first contact with the ground, cradle, ask the crane driver to stop and then check the boat at the bow (with a plumb line if necessary) to ensure she is level and dead straight and central in the cradle. Once the crane has gone, you're stuck if she's leaning over (and it places lots of stress on one side obviously). Now given you are lifting with a mobile crane and hence a single point lift, if shes leaning over in the belts its a pain as someone has already mentioned, but not the end of the world. If she is leaning, just touch the keel down and then using the cradle legs (acrows) wind her over until she is level if you see what I mean. In a lot of cases if she is not straight it is easier to move the cradle rather than the boat (inch it sideways with a long bar as a lever from the ground).

Don't worry about the bow and stern props until the end just before the belts get dropped away from the hull.

Lots of wood, including thin bits of ply, is helpful to have at hand to use as packing. Remember 99 % of cradles are universal in fit/sizing so some improvisation will probably be required.

Regarding the rudder, once the boat is lifted ashore ask the driver to just touch the keel to the ground and hold it there. Now go aboard and undo the fixings and using help, lower the rudder and shaft downwards until it is touching the ground. At this point I am assuming the top of the stock is still inside the boat. Now get off the boat, and whilst supporting the rudder to stop it falling off, ask the driver to lift the yacht off the rudder. You then can lie the rudder down until ready to move it/do whatever. The reason for this is that you are not allowed to climb on an unsupported load (ie the boat hanging). But by touching the keel down on a piece of wood, you should be ok . (Not to say he won't let you climb on it when hanging, but he's not supposed to!)

Take your time and don't rush - normal crane hire is for a full day. You will probably have to do a 'contract lift' where the crane company does all the planning, insurance etc. In other words everything. For straight crane hire you need a method statement, insurance (although can be done through the crane company anyway) and an appointed person to act as the banksman/slinger (the guy directing the crane driver). But see what they say and shop around. Most of the crane companies have no work at the moment and there are some good deals to be had! And don't discount the big national crane hire companies like Sparrows and Marsh Plant. The golden rule is to ask what you are getting for your money - just a crane and driver or more than that?
Hope this helps.

 

[gta]

Our yard in north wales insist that fin keelers use a cradle, they will only use wooden props for long keelers

 

[hoverjumper]

Hope this helps.

Tremendously helpful. Thanks ribdriver!!