DAKA
Well-Known Member
Anyone chipping their car needs to advice their Insurers prior to installation including manufacturers upgrade option.
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Chip Tuning Marine Diesels: Any experiences or thoughts
- Thread starter jimduncan1
- Start date
Anyone chipping their car needs to advice their Insurers prior to installation including manufacturers upgrade option.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
LS1 thanks for that and I accept what you say but I have probably racked up about 250k miles on various remapped cars all of which went back to the manufacturer because they were on manufacturer contract hire. I have also had one major accident in one of those vehicles too. Never has anyone contacted me to point out that I have had one of those vehicles remapped, not even the insurer who covered the cost of repairing the vehicle involved in the accident. I had my first remap done on a 530d back in about year 2000 and my latest one done on an Audi A8 4.2Tdi only recently. As for 'nasty surprises' for after market tuners, I'm quite sure that the savvy ones will find their way around whatever manufacturers put in their way in the same way as savvy car thieves will always be able to outwit the latest car security measures.
Look, nobody is forcing anyone to remap their engines. Personally I'll carry on doing it because I enjoy the extra performance and improved fuel economy I get but, if you are worried about insurance or damaging the engine, then don't do it
Latestarter1
Well-Known Member
I first got into tuning boutique automotive engines when visiting Wolfsburg in 1997 on a Brazilian truck project. Seemed politic at the time to give me an Audi A6 however with the small 1.9 TDI engine option, as company car. Guys at VW/Audi were suprised that I only had the wee motor and were very keen to demonstrate how much the Bosch VE pump could give without hitting a smoke limit. We fooled the EGR, boost pressure, and I think ambient air pressure sensors........The result was a car which made the A6 with the V6 TDI look sillly, could light the tyres up in third gear, yet averaged 46 mpg. I purchased the car on expiry of the lease and eventually sold it some years later with 245,000 hard miles on the clock, still on original VG turbo and at the last MOT the exhaust system still looked new.
Secret is knowing the limits.
Going back to tuning marine diesel engines far more risky proposition due to duty cycle and unless propeller changed to demand the extra power, pointless.
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
I 100% agree with LS on the duty cycle issue. With most vehicles, they are normally working at well below 50% of their design duty cycles, and with performance cars, even hot hatches, they are down below 20%, thereby having a significant safety margin built-in. With a planing boat, generally they are running at 70/80% therefore much nearer their design limits.
As the great Clint Eastwood said, Do you feel lucky?
ulyden
Well-Known Member
The VE44 pump was amazing . In 1997 BMW took their new M47D 2 litre engine to the DTM.In a E36 320i. The base engine was just a bit modified. Larger nozzles, bigger turbo, higher speed, but base engine was the same. They were pulling out 180kw from this 2 liter at that time. 250hp. 400Nm torque and 225g/kwh at full load. 195g/kwh in best point Load faktor was quite high. Racing. But that was tuning not chip tuning and they know the limits!
Today this power is offered in the 525d with twin turbo.
BartW
Well-Known Member
I can tell you a lot about that
, thanks Latestarter and many other to give a objective opinion and concern, which I can accept,
but despite all the critical comments, I still believe that for posters question in post #30, a tuning kit is a viable option;
the D3-160 is a just not powerfull enough package in a 25ft Karnic.
the D3-190 is basically the same engine, ( no difference in the basic engine block)
so tuning the D3*160 to 183HP (and other prop) seems a viable option that I would seriously consider on this boat.
There is a forumite on here (ReneJK) who did exactly that 3 years ago, on the same model from Karnic, and I believe he is pleased with it (can't get hold of him despite PM's and e-mail)
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vas
Well-Known Member
ulyden and LS will all due respect as you obviously know much more than me regarding engines, I read this report and I just laugh (I really should cry of anger though!)
OK, fine BMW 2.0lt diesel producing 250bhp, for how fcking long???
/OT=ON
I own a heavily modified fiat coupe 2.0lt 4pot 16v turbo with forged pistons/rods, colombo&bariani fast road cams, superspring exhaust manifold, larger injectors, larger turbo, front mounted intercooler, 76mm downpipe, decat, single box exhaust, reprogrammed ecu and a host load of other mods. All work carried out by a v.competent mechanic or myself (for the peripherals) after spending ages on the appropriate forum, checking what others are doing, what works what not and carefully collecting bits; that was a year in the workshop... FWIW, ECU programming is by myself, I consider it 75% done, I know where/how to push and I've spend many nights on an empty uphill motorway stretch around home pushing logging, analysing and correcting maps. So by no means perfect, but since I'm driving on rev and wideband AFR engine's fine.
I also own (the BIGGEST MISTAKE of my motoring life to day!) a BMW X3 2.0lt also petrol (diesels weren't allowed in Athens and Thessaloniki at the time, now they are...).
The fiat was last dynoed on a rr at 330bhp@wheels at 1.25bar and goes like the stink even 4yrs later and 40k km later (OK, not racing it so true only on 80% load for 2-4% of its life)
the godawful bmw is standard 150bhp (fly) has 130k km and last month featured a blown head gasket
Removed engine, block and cylhead warped, want to keep engine, cheaper to fix than replace (lets not discuss that, i'll probably only fix and sell)
Crank shells shot! condition NOT compatible with age and mileage!
Car run as a general runabout, kids to school, me to work or mitos, family trips. Motorway is say 40% of mileage and that is at 160kph or 4.3Krpm in usually 3h spells (Athens-Volos).
Oil, the recommended by BMW, serviced and oil changes at computer suggested intervals, so all perfect!
WTF are the shells shot? How could I trust the Germans (no offence!) if they cannot put right a bleeding underpowered 2lt petrol engine?
What's marketing got to do with it? Discussing with my rather experienced mechanic, he recons I should change oil (ok and filter ofcourse) at half the intervals suggested by the manufacturer. If true, why do they state 25k km for oil changes??? I recon that due to the 1800kg car, engine is at higher load than expected on the motorway, but then again, all germans on the autobahn put their foot and the floor and keep going, that wouldn't work on this setup...
So, do they actually know what they are doing, do they care? After going through all that, I realised that the 2.0lt petrol engine by BMW is a problematic unit for donks years (stupid of me not checking the web before buying 6yrs ago...) and everyone is complaining...
Lots of rethorical Qs but for sure I'm not getting another bmw anytime soon...
/OT==OFF
To put it in perspective, considering the minimal load of car engines vs marine ones, I'd be tempted to detune/reprop a marine engine rather than push it further!
Can anyone point to a leisure craft whose engines last well for 5-6k hrs? (I'm sure someone is going to come along but that's the exception imho) I see left right and centre ppl replacing engines (admittedly many with unusage related syndroms) but only some fishing vessels reach Ks of hours of service around here...
ok, feel better now!
V.
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Vas, as I've said several times on here, why do back street tuners think that they can do a better job than VM's with all their technical resources and testing?
burgundyben
Well-Known Member
Kinell! No wonder the engine is knackered.
vas
Well-Known Member
makes you wonder why the facelift model (2009 or so) had both petrol and diesel 2.0lt engines up to 170 from 150.
Now according to the discussion which one would be better I wonder...
V.
Fmicol
Active Member
Hello,
after 4 years experience on my Karnic it's wirks perfectly!
Does some body do have the same positive experience?
François
after 4 years experience on my Karnic it's wirks perfectly!
Does some body do have the same positive experience?
François
BartW
Well-Known Member
hello F,
long time no see !
glad to hear it worked for you,
Are you still catching the Tuna's ?
still with the Karnic?
I still have mine and still don't want to get rid of it
I remember you did tests with other props,
did the chip tuning allow you to use a bigger pitched prop ?
long time no see !
glad to hear it worked for you,
Are you still catching the Tuna's ?
still with the Karnic?
I still have mine and still don't want to get rid of it
I remember you did tests with other props,
did the chip tuning allow you to use a bigger pitched prop ?
Fmicol
Active Member
Hello Bart,
yes i am still going out for tuna fishing ,between 5 miles to 20/25 miles out in summer time!
Yes i still have the Karnic and i'm very happy with,i changed to a bigger prop with the chip tuning and that's perfect around 20 knots at 3000/3200 and 27 max speed!I have now 1800 hours and every thing ok!
And your's?If you come South of France please let me know!
yes i am still going out for tuna fishing ,between 5 miles to 20/25 miles out in summer time!
Yes i still have the Karnic and i'm very happy with,i changed to a bigger prop with the chip tuning and that's perfect around 20 knots at 3000/3200 and 27 max speed!I have now 1800 hours and every thing ok!
And your's?If you come South of France please let me know!
aquatom
Well-Known Member
I always advise against it. A customer of ours didn't listen to our advise last year and went ahead with chipping his D6 350s as the tuning company said that it would not override any of the engines fail safe settings. The engines had 250 hours on them and when it was done he managed another 40 minutes before melting 3 pistons!
In the end he went with two new D6 400s, new transom shields, drives and Humphree interceptor trim tabs.
The boat now dose 45knotts and the owner is happy but it wasn't a cheep job!
In the end he went with two new D6 400s, new transom shields, drives and Humphree interceptor trim tabs.
The boat now dose 45knotts and the owner is happy but it wasn't a cheep job!
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
The original manufacturer will have done many hours testing on rigs, and some correlation on a real application, before releasing an engine tune and supporting with a warranty. How many hours verification and homologation will be done by a chipping company? Aquatom's real world experience us worth noting for anyone tempted with a quick fix.
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Melted pistons eh, obvious there carefull recalibration to the ecu didn't include any failsafe parameters , and obviously there programming on the pulse width modulation to the fueling was calculated on the back of a fag packet.