Child-friendly Yacht Sales

[xstucker]

My sailing partner and I visited the London Boat Show at Excel yesterday and took our 5 and 6 year old sons with us. Having put together some funding from boat sales and bonuses from work, we were ready to 'talk turkey' with some vendors of sailing yachts. We need at least 40ft with good performance and comfortable accommodation for a family of 5. We have studied specifications for a couple of months and decided that as we had a top-end of £250k, the "world was our oyster" (except that we couldn't afford an Oyster). Although I would spend the lot on a J124, we have to consider families, so we were looking at Jeanneau, Beneteau, and Elan in the first tier.

Having never owned a Jeanneau, I was interested to see what they could do for us, but we didn't get past the cockpit of the SO45DS. You see the problem appeared to be that children were not welcome. The staff on the stand exercised no control on the number of people entering each yacht, and then began to panic, snapping and looking very concerned about children being on the yacht. This boat was top of the list, but it became immediately apparent that Jeanneau did not want business from people like us.

Next was Beneteau, where the stand was just as busy, but much more controlled. They also talked to the little boys who were of course interested in taking a look at the keel bolts for some reason. Their First 45 had turned my head.

Then the Elan 450. These people left us alone to get used to the boat and to get the boys over their need to explore every locker and of course under-floor area. Then a short and un-pressured conversation, exchange of a few details and we were on our way.

I am still unsure about which boat to buy, but I know which one I won't consider, and it has little to do with the boat itself.

Oh, and finally, why can't Excel do better on the food front. Southampton had plenty of choice, where Excel was pretty poor. Thank goodness for Burger King at Waterloo, or my son might have lost it completely.

 

[Ceejay]

Perhaps it's the case that the salesmen are not gifted with second sight and therefore don't know that you have a quarter of a million in your back pocket. They can't possibly be expected to allow every accompanied 5/6 year old child to explore every cavity on an expensive yacht on the off chance that it might lead to a sale.
I can't help feeling also that you are just a little too pleased with yourself about the fact that you can afford a yacht in that price range so you probably didn't endear yourself to the Jeanneau people from the outset if this was your approach
CJ

 

[OceanWanderer]

Ceejay: in every business I have ever run, the cardinal rule for every salesperson I have ever employed has been that they treat every single person who approaches us as if they are all millionaires with a immediate urge to part with their money! If doesn't matter whether we were exhibiting at car shows, boat shows, agricultural shows or any other show (and we have exhibited at all of those and more), even when an unaccompanied youngster came to the stand, they would be spoken to in much the same way.
I am convinced that this attitude has directly contributed to our company success and caused me to be able to buy my own boat and spend my time sailing, rather than working!
I really feel for xstucker having to suffer what he did at the boatshow and I for one would not consider buying a boat from any of the companies who treated me in that way!

 

[dunedin]

Putting aside the different sales techniques, make sure you get a sail before you sign on the dotted line.
Actual sailing performance must be the priority for any sailing yacht - not necesarily pure speed (depends on preference) but handling. Suspect there could be quite a bit of difference between these boats on the water

 

[donm]

There is no excuse for poor treatment of a family BUT if the boat suits you, where is the sense in compounding their poor judgement by not owning the boat that suits you best? Surely your quiet enjoyment of the best boat is more important? Is it worth trying another agent?

 

[Oliveoyl]

How true! First boat show we visited,we were "tyre kickers" (albeit with a dream), and received some fairly mixed treatment. 3 years later, with the capital to finance the dream, certain vendors didn't even make the short list.
Never aspired to be millionaires, just peeps doing market research, but it was hard to forget some of the "less gifted" sales people.
And in the case of xstucker, if the kids are not allowed to explore every nook and cranny, maybe the salespeople have something to hide?
(Although I do remember having to restrain a youngster from using the heads)

 

[Lakesailor]

"nose" and "face" spring to mind in this thread.

If there is a particular boat which fits the bill, what is the problem with a bit of bother with the salesmen.
These guys are not only there to sell product. They will get their collective arses kicked if the boat suffers 30,000 hours of use in a week.

You aren't buying the salesmen, just the boat.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Do you think that you can judge if a boat is suitable or not when watching a 5 and 6 year old? I'd would want to be a little more focused when spending £250K. I have a degree of sympathy with the sales guy. There is no way he could know you have a cheque waiting, with lots of people on the boat he has to make a judgement as to who is a serious buyer, tough job. With the show organisers billing the event as a 'family day out', You could just as easily been a wanna be, just have a look.

The main criticism, I think, would be the lack of control of numbers viewing.

Finally, IMO, have a swift cursory look around the boat, let the sales guy know you are a serious buyer and arrange a private viewing of the boat after the show. Then your lads can enjoy the freedom of looking around as well they should. They can look whilst you do all the serious techy talk. You wont have to worry about the lads, neither will the sales guy and with your serious intentions declared, he better had treat the future skipper and first mates with respect!

 

[Ariadne]

I agree with this. When we have looked at boats with our children (who have lioved on a boat most of their lives) we were treated like second class citizens. Especially when the kids started asking technical questions.

People need to look after the kids, they are after all the future market.

 

[David_Jersey]

I will admit to not having £250k to spend on a boat (or anything /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) - but given that you must have known that the show boat would be full of folk merely having a look, and with salesmen lacking ESP, I would have thought getting in contact ahead of the show would have been the thing to do or even visiting the dealer / manufacturer before the show, so you knew that you and family would have plenty of time to look one over without a million other punters bothering you.

Still, not my £250k........

 

[mikejames]

I once was able to explore the entire Bavaria range on show at Earls Court while accompanying my four year old daughter in opening every locker on every boat or so it seemed.
It was quiet in the show at the time. But not as quiet as ECBS2007..

Of course that was Peters Opal AFAIR ...

 

[RichardTaylor]

15 years ago I could only just afford the entry to a boatshow. I asked stupid questions, and got varying degrees of courtesy in the answers.

15 years on and I get complimentary ticket entry to the boatshows. I will not contemplate talking to those who only now want to talk to me. Their past arrogant attitude has lost them potential sales.

Unfortunately it seems too many "executives" in the recreational marine industry are far too arrogant and snooty to realise that they can build future sales by being pleasant to the aspirational public.

 

[andymcp]

I have some sympathy with you, in that we have 3 kids to consider when considering boats, but this year we spent time ahead of Excel establishing a short-list of ones we were interested in, then for the actual show SWMBO stayed at home with the kids while I spent 2 days clambering around the show boats to validate assumptions and answer some of the questions. On each stand, the point was made that I wasn't going to buy at the show, and that SWMBO and the kids would be involved in follow-up visits and test sails after the show, which would be where we got serious. You could almost see the relief in the faces of the sales staff when they realised that we had not brought the young 'uns along. To be fair, with it being that busy and wanting to cover several boats in reasonable timescales, it would have been no fun for us either. It also made it much easier to view one, then another, and pop back to the first to remind myself of differences.

My kids will be there for all the stages of viewing locally, test sails and the rest, but no way will I take them through the boat show part. I need time to do my own due diligence there and have dull conversations that would see them bored. Life's too short for that (and, being as young as 3, they really only want to look at the brochures just now anyway). /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As an aside, what were your impressions of the most 'family-friendly' boat from those you viewed? We also number 5 and have young 'uns to consider.

 

[xstucker]

Although I liked the Bene and Elan Performance yachts, the reality is that children are likely to get a bit thrown around in the cockpit, so the boats with central cockpit tables to brace against are good. We also need plenty of cabin space and don't need huge pit lockers. So, the Elan Impression 434, Bene Oceanis 43 and Jeanneau 45DS are good. The last has a much more spacious cockpit.

Having owned a Bavaria 38 recently and found it to be great for accommodation, but not a great sailing boat at all, I have tended to keep away from the German boats, but someone suggested we look at Hanse as a possibility, so we are off to see the 43e and 47e at the weekend.

My original comment in this post was more about the attitude of manufacturers and their level of service ethos. Having owned a number of yachts and cars, I am really keen to ensure that we buy a boat from a company that will treat us well after we purchase. Getting information and parts from Bavaria proved to be tricky at best.

Good luck with your search, and I would also be interested in your views on family-friendly yachts.

 

[xstucker]

This is spot-on Richard. I also went and looked around the Oyster 655 with my son. They let us go where we wanted and look anywhere, and they politely answered all of my questions. All this, and they knew that there was almost zero chance that I had the means to purchase.

 

[andymcp]

We saw the Hanse 47 at a local dealers, and were initially impressed with some parts of the boat (very clean deck layout, so fewer things for little ones to trip over), but this was pretty much totally offset by the open transom, just right for a kid to slide through in a rough sea. The youngest is three and respects cockpit boundaries very well, but that big space would haunt me every minute....

Our most successful boat that we've been on with the kids was an old Oceanlord - plenty of room, great feeling of security in the centre cockpit, and most importantly it had bunk beds, which make it so much more flexible when trying to get the little beggars to sleep or accommodate their friends. I find it constantly disappointing that the only layouts are three doubles, not a mix of bunks/doubles. To me, Oyster have the best layout in their 46, just a shame it comes with such a hefty price tag. All centre cockpit options I've seen in recent years follow the 2-doubles route, not even a nav berth. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place though.

Other considerations we go in with - mainsheet track outside the cockpit somewhere (again why centre cockpits work well for us), must be able to be single-handed effectively, preferably dinghy storage as far aft as possible (the 45DS was excellent in this regard), as much below-decks storage as possible in lockers, not open shelves (Bene particularly poor in this regard). There are a few other must-haves that are on the list, but these are more in the personal preference category and have little to do with the manufacturer.

At the moment I'd gladly settle on an older boat that would do us right (current preference is for the Oyster 435) but SWMBO has a thing about older boats and drools over the Jeanneau 45DS. The search continues....

 

[RichardTaylor]

[ QUOTE ]

At the moment I'd gladly settle on an older boat that would do us right (current preference is for the Oyster 435) but SWMBO has a thing about older boats and drools over the Jeanneau 45DS. The search continues....

[/ QUOTE ]

You could always suggest an older boat and younger wife /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[andymcp]

Dear Mrs McP,

A certain person, also known as PaxiMoon, suggested that I trade you in for an Oyster. I'm sure you understand. One has fine lines, beautiful motion, inspires feelings of great pride and should ensure my sailing to new places is a joy. The other will keep doing all that without surgery.

As such, I'm off.

Andy