cherish your harbour master - a rant!

Or alternatively the local community might choose to meet some or all of the costs to encourage visitors and trade.

Fair point but two problems are commonly met: (i) many of these seaside communities are desperately poor; (ii) the yacht trade is seasonal and typically modest in terms of its economic contribution. So some small contribution is often necessary to help defray the facilities' running costs.
 
That's what councils should do, but they, like harbours, are desperately short of money. It's only going to get worse as well. With the huge government deficit and run-away pension liabilities hanging over us there are going to be similar effects in many aspects of our lives.

True. I think the best we can hope for from councils is moorings and facilities run at cost.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody in 22 pages of this thread has said that the £15 anchoring charge is, I'm fairly certain, only applied within the area adjacent to the Falmouth Yacht Haven, and includes use off the showers, loos, and laundry facilities provided by the Harbour Authority.

And very decent facilities they are too, clean, warm, and with piped Radio 2 at all times.

I have, and that is exactly my point. You do not have the option to anchor and not pay for these facilities. Falmouth appear to have allocated only one place to anchor near enough to access the town and that is part of the Haven facility. There is a "short stay" option of up to two hours for which they will charge you £1 a metre (£8 in my case) if all you want to do is pop ashore and grab some provisions, but I still think that is a disproportional and unreasonable charge for what you want to do.
 
There is a "short stay" option of up to two hours for which they will charge you £1 a metre (£8 in my case) if all you want to do is pop ashore and grab some provisions, but I still think that is a disproportional and unreasonable charge for what you want to do.

I think we all understand your position on this! But why refuse to answer two simple questions, (i) What would you consider to be fair price for Falmouth HA to charge? and (ii) Who should pay the excess if that charge is insufficient to defray their costs, the checkout girl in Poundland?
 
Ask Old Harry for the latest details, but I seem to remember Wales is already subject to this madness, so you in Scottish waters had better think about joining BORG or at the very least checking out their website.

Scottish waters have the advantage that once beyond the Clyde and in amongst the crinkly bits there is a huge number of places to anchor.
 
Fortunately it's not a problem in Scottish, Irish or Welsh waters as far as I'm aware - yet!

The only place I can think of where something like that happens is Arinagour on Coll, where Calmac have laid visitor moorings and charge a tenner a night for them, replacing a local commercial effort with a rather chequered reputation. There is still plenty of room to anchor, though, and absolutely no suggestion of charges for that.
 
The only place I can think of where something like that happens is Arinagour on Coll, where Calmac have laid visitor moorings and charge a tenner a night for them, replacing a local commercial effort with a rather chequered reputation. There is still plenty of room to anchor, though, and absolutely no suggestion of charges for that.

I was there this summer and the moorings seem well used - all full. A tenner a night for a mooring is entirely reasonable I think.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody in 22 pages of this thread has said that the £15 anchoring charge is, I'm fairly certain, only applied within the area adjacent to the Falmouth Yacht Haven, and includes use off the showers, loos, and laundry facilities provided by the Harbour Authority.

And very decent facilities they are too, clean, warm, and with piped Radio 2 at all times.

Are you sure it includes the marina facilities ? It didn't and I find no reference of it on their website .
 
I have, and that is exactly my point. You do not have the option to anchor and not pay for these facilities. Falmouth appear to have allocated only one place to anchor near enough to access the town and that is part of the Haven facility. There is a "short stay" option of up to two hours for which they will charge you £1 a metre (£8 in my case) if all you want to do is pop ashore and grab some provisions, but I still think that is a disproportional and unreasonable charge for what you want to do.
You are missing the point, the harbour itself is part of the facilities and by anchoring within it you are expected to pay for that use - harbours cost money to maintain and exist and are subject to all sorts of statutory conditions. Some harbours, such as Chichester will charge you merely to enter, you don't even have to drop an anchor to become responsible for a fee. Most moorings/marinas within a harbour, even the private ones, will have an element of "harbour dues" which are collected on behalf of and passed to the harbour authority. The General Directions for harbours will often stipulate that a fee is due from all vessels "using" the harbour but most don't actually enforce it, collecting it for anchoring or mooring instead. The option is always there not to pay anything by not going there and anchoring somewhere where there is no fee payable.
 
You are missing the point, the harbour itself is part of the facilities and by anchoring within it you are expected to pay for that use

Err, some natural harbours were built /formed that way by nature itself, with no cost to Councils or more recently HA.
Indeed most shore based banks, foreshore, walls, quays, piers, jetties are privately owned, not by the HA so are maintained independently of the HA, so the HA has no responsibility to maintain them and so those using /entering said Harbours have no responsibility to pay for the upkeep etc to any HA.

The river beds below mean HW and harbour beds below mean HW are another matter, usually the crown estates or in Cornwall the duchy I understand are the owners, with some river beds privately owned, as are some rivers themselves.

So can be quite misleading to suggest that harbours need/require a tax/charge to maintain them.

Would be a great idea if there was an authoritive publication covering the UK clearly stating the ownership and responsibilities over all harbours and rivers :)
 
Err, some natural harbours were built /formed that way by nature itself, with no cost to Councils or more recently HA.
Indeed most shore based banks, foreshore, walls, quays, piers, jetties are privately owned, not by the HA so are maintained independently of the HA, so the HA has no responsibility to maintain them and so those using /entering said Harbours have no responsibility to pay for the upkeep etc to any HA.

The river beds below mean HW and harbour beds below mean HW are another matter, usually the crown estates or in Cornwall the duchy I understand are the owners, with some river beds privately owned, as are some rivers themselves.

So can be quite misleading to suggest that harbours need/require a tax/charge to maintain them.

Would be a great idea if there was an authoritive publication covering the UK clearly stating the ownership and responsibilities over all harbours and rivers :)
Perhaps I should qualify what I mean when I talk about harbours - I am talking about "statutory ports", including "trust ports", most council run harbours are also statutory ports. These have clearly defined boundaries and by virtue of being statutory ports they have statutory obligations such as the need to comply with the "Port Marine Safety Code" which do incur costs. Most harbours , certainly those that charge any form of harbour dues, fall into the statutory port category so I would say it isn't actually misleading - it is probably more misleading to talk about charging for river beds which only apply to very few places such as the Duchy and the Montague Estate and, not suprisingly, rivers. Harbours actually charge for use of the harbour and it isn't really anything to do with rivers or high and low water marks.

The two harbours discussed most in this thread, Falmouth & Newport IW, are both statutory ports - which actually demonstrates quite well how hugely different ports are obliged to operate under the same statutes and regulations.
 
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Perhaps you have already qualified your statements re possible problems at Newport; I have no axe to grind and am a great fan of anything going to boost the IOW, I've long thought it an underused resource of skilled people, from aircraft and hovercraft ( both of which colleagues of mine worked on ) to yachts from time immoral, and warships like the Polish destroyer ' Blystowycka - Lightning ' which defended Cowes.

There is though a vandal problem at Newport and you can deny it all you like, I would love it to be hassle free but it's no great shakes to me and snags with the tide if not staying long; you l'escargot have the misfortune to live there so are understanably uppity when one reports the truth.
 
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Perhaps you have already qualified your statements re possible problems at Newport; I have no axe to grind and am a great fan of anything going to boost the IOW, I've long thought it an underused resource of skilled people, from aircraft and hovercraft ( both of which colleagues of mine worked on ) to yachts from time immoral, and warships like the Polish destroyer ' Blystowycka - Lightning ' which defended Cowes.

There is though a vandal problem at Newport and you can deny it all you like, I would love it to be hassle free but it's no great shakes to me and snags with the tide if not staying long; you l'escargot have the misfortune to live there so are understanably uppity when one reports the truth.

You can say it all you like but it doesn't make it true, there is no "vandal problem" at Newport Harbour - I will qualify that the same as I did before you can never discount isolated incidents of vandalism anywhere and Newport probably suffers less of these than most places.

I don't know why you feel the need to continually display your lack of knowledge and ignorance.

I don't consider living in Newport a misfortune, I choose to live here. As I said before you haven't "reported" anything, it is just another example of the misinformed bollocks that you post on any number of threads on here about subjects you know absolutely nothing about. As usual, it is you who gets uppity when your absence of knowledge is pointed out...
 
I think we all understand your position on this! But why refuse to answer two simple questions, (i) What would you consider to be fair price for Falmouth HA to charge? and (ii) Who should pay the excess if that charge is insufficient to defray their costs, the checkout girl in Poundland?

I wasn't aware I had been asked those questions, let alone refused to answer them.
I appreciate harbours, even natural ones like Falmouth, cost something to maintain and operate and have no objection to paying a reasonable and appropriate fee for doing so.

(1) Using the 2014 prices currently shown on their website they want to charge me £23 for using the Marina which is obviously a man made facility requiring investment and maintenance, £17 for a mooring which again they have to lay and maintain, and £12 to drop my own anchor onto the seabed at my own risk. All three options appear to give me access to all the Haven facilities. Personally if all I want to do is drop my anchor and go ashore I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect either a concessionary two hour period, or maybe a nominal fee of £5 per day for those that want to stay overnight. This would appear to be in keeping with other nearby anchorages.

(2) I guess that would rather depend on how many pies I bought in Poundland. Sensible questions tend to encourage sensible answers.
 
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